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peg
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Posted: Mon May 1st, 2006 01:36 pm |
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A La Paz resident died last week when a Nordhavn 62 ran aground in the vicinity of Mag Bay. Evidently he was a crew member on a delivery from La Paz to Southern California. The boat is owned by a couple from the Phoenix area who were not aboard. The boat was captained by a friend of mine from SoCal who is very experienced. I don't know any more than what is written in the attached announcement. Be careful out there
http://www.bajainsider.com/baja-life/general-information/mark-saunders-dies.htm
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Stuart
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Posted: Wed May 3rd, 2006 01:26 am |
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I have to wonder how they managed to ground that boat. Nordhavn's are fabulous long-range cruisers and at 62 ft., that's a big boat. Report says weather not a factor? Obviously, I don't know the whole story, but very, very sad for this to happen to anyone.
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peg
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Posted: Wed May 3rd, 2006 02:32 am |
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Stuart wrote: Report says weather not a factor?
I have just read an update in Latitude 38. Their report says that weather was a factor. They say winds to 35 knots that afternoon. And it happened just at nightfall. No other significant information was reported.
I do not own a Nordhavn but I know all the boats in their line and I know many of the people there. There are a number of things that just don't add up at this point. It appears that they ran aground about 3 miles south of the entrance to Mag Bay...as if they were trying to put into Mag Bay. But why? The N62 has more than enough range to make it all the way to Seattle and beyond if necessary. 35 knots of wind and heavy seas are childs play for the N62. It just doesn't make sense.
I am following this story very closely since I know one person aboard very well who I believe was the captain. He was in sales for Nordhavn for a few years, but in the last couple of years he has been doing only deliveries for Nordhavn. He is very experienced and I would trust him implicitly. The man who was killed and his wife owned a sailboat, but were frequent visitors at the Nordhavn office in Dana Point. Maybe they were thinking of purchasing a Nordhavn and went along for the ride to find out what they were like.
Something unusual happened that day, the captain was too experienced to make a stupid mistake to drive the boat up on the rocks like that.
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LimeyLInda
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Posted: Wed May 3rd, 2006 03:49 am |
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| Thanks peg. If and when you have more ifo. please lets us know. perhaps we can learn something. T.
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JZ
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Posted: Wed May 3rd, 2006 04:04 am |
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Yeah, this is very odd. Although, I would not say 35knot winds and heavy seas on the Pacific are childs play for that boat.
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peg
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Posted: Wed May 3rd, 2006 05:08 am |
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JZ wrote: Although, I would not say 35knot winds and heavy seas on the Pacific are childs play for that boat.
Yes, probably an overstatement on my part. Powering into 35k winds and some pretty good size waves is not a pleasant experience on almost any yacht. I would guess that they were probably making only 3 or 4 knots over the ground. And that bulbous bow would have been pounding like an empty 55 gallon drum. But that would not put the N62 into any eminent danger.
It is not productive to speculate, but I would guess they were making for Mag Bay to wait for a weather window to make for a more pleasant trip north. For some reason they missed the entrance. I have a couple of theories what might have happened but will wait and see when the official report is released.
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LimeyLInda
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Posted: Wed May 3rd, 2006 05:06 pm |
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| I agree with peg, let's wait for the official report. However, trying to make port in 35knots of wind on a lee shore is very tricky. Standing off shore 20miles and sitting it out is often the prefered tactic. We do not know how many crew there were and their experience which is an enormous factor is such conditions. Also, there may have been and equipment failure.
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peg
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Posted: Thu May 4th, 2006 02:16 pm |
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Information with regards to this accident is almost non-existent 2 weeks later. Pacific Asian Enterprises (Nordhavn) is being very closed mouth about this - even from people who I know within the company. However, this accident has nothing to do with them directly.
I searched the public records and found that the Charlotte B is owned by the Greenberg Family Trust in Prescott, AZ. The owners, Harold and Edith, are not included in those who were reported aboard at the time of the accident.
The Charlotte B is a 6 year old boat, hull #16 built in yr. 2000 in Taiwan. This information fits one of the theories I have about how this accident could have happened.
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LimeyLInda
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Posted: Thu May 4th, 2006 04:08 pm |
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Go to: http://www.infoasis.com/~latitude38/LectronicLat/2006/0406/Apr24/Apr24.html
for more info. and pics
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caboken
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Posted: Thu May 11th, 2006 04:25 am |
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PEG:
We're former Nordhavn 62 owners, who live in Cabo. We have another Nordhavn on order, and are very curious. This wreck just doesn't seem to make sense.
Your last posting caught my attention. What is your theory as to what happened?
I can confirm what someone else posted on this thread. The Nordhavn 62 is an extremely seaworthy boat. We have run many thousands of miles, including runs in sustained 40-50 knot winds. We've had bumpy rides, but none where we felt in danger.
If you look at the satellite photos of the region where the N62 went aground, there are plenty of rocks for miles around. I've met Brian Saunders (the captain) and thought he was very competent. He certainly didn't seem like someone who would maneuver a boat into a poorly charted rocky area in 35+ knot winds. It doesn't ring true.
Obviously, it's a waste of time to speculate on these things, but it's also impossible not to. Especially when we look at the pictures, and see a twin to our own boat, sitting on a beach not that far from our home.
My personal theories: 1) Someone thought the boat was on auto-pilot, and it wasn't. This allowed it to get close enough to shore to hit a submerged rock. Or, 2) They were sight-seeing close to shore, and found a submerged rock.
As I said though.... I have absolutely no information, and speculation on these things is counter-productive.
-Ken W
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JZ
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Posted: Thu May 11th, 2006 04:36 am |
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Any idea how far off shore the rocks reach.
How accurate are the charts going down that side of the Baja coast. I understand the inaccuracies of the SOC, but I thought with all the shipping traffic going down the West coast of Bajaa that the charts were quite accurate. Is that the case? The farest I've gone down is to Enscenada, and they were very accurate to that point at least.
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caboken
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Posted: Thu May 11th, 2006 05:22 am |
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I don't have good charts for the area. The location given in the articles 24°27'N 111° 54'W is about 8.5 miles south of the entrance to Mag Bay.
My cursory look at the charts indicates depths under 100 feet as far as 6 miles off shore. Given how poorly the area is charted, I'd certainly be nervous in water that shallow.
Perhaps they were heading into Mag Bay, and running a few miles off shore when they were surprised by an uncharted rock.
Isla Santa Margarita is a few miles south. Maybe they were close to shore to check out the island, then were running a few miles off before making the right turn into Mag Bay (thinking that would be "far enough" from shore).
I probably shouldn't have posted. Information will come out, and no matter what the finding will be, the result was what it was.
Sad.
-Ken W
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JZ
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Posted: Thu May 11th, 2006 05:34 am |
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Wow, <100 ft six miles out. That's surprising.
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caboken
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Posted: Thu May 11th, 2006 05:47 am |
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I just double-checked the chart. I was in error on my prior response. The depth is 16 fathoms in that area (slightly under 100 feet) for two miles out, then drops to 300 feet.
My apologies...
-Ken W
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JZ
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Posted: Thu May 11th, 2006 06:04 am |
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Ok, still pretty shallow that far out.
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peg
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Posted: Thu May 11th, 2006 02:25 pm |
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caboken wrote: What is your theory as to what happened?
Ken, I'm not going to speculate on this forum for a couple of reasons:
1. Weather was reported as NOT a factor in one report and reported AS a factor (35 knots) in another report. Weather conditions are an important factor.
2. I have seen two conflicting reports as to exactly where the grounding occurred. Both are somewhat near the Mag Bay entrance but several miles apart.
There is just too much we don't know yet. I will send you a private message, I'm going to be in Cabo in a couple of weeks.
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peg
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Posted: Thu May 11th, 2006 04:47 pm |
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caboken wrote: I've met Brian Saunders (the captain) and thought he was very competent. He certainly didn't seem like someone who would maneuver a boat into a poorly charted rocky area in 35+ knot winds. It doesn't ring true.
Yes, I believe that Brian Saunders was the delivery captain. He is very experienced with both sail and power boats. I can verify that he has been through the Panama Canal at least once and has cruised both the ICW and the South Pacific for an extended time. He was part of the crew on one of the legs for Nordhavn's Around the World with the N40 three years ago. I would never expect that something like this would happen to Brian, he was just too cautious. In my opinion something unusual and unexpected happened that day. I doubt that it was a navigational error or inattention to surroundings.
It is bad enough to lose the boat, but to lose a crewman too is very sad. I feel bad for everyone aboard.
Last edited on Thu May 11th, 2006 08:02 pm by peg
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peg
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Posted: Fri May 12th, 2006 04:32 am |
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JZ wrote: How accurate are the charts going down that side of the Baja coast. I understand the inaccuracies of the SOC, but I thought with all the shipping traffic going down the West coast of Bajaa that the charts were quite accurate.
I generally concur with what CaboKen reported on the depths of the water in the area reported in one account of the gounding. I have two different sets of charts for the entire west coast of Baja based on DMA charts. One set of charts is produced by Gerry Cunningham. I was reviewing Gerry's charts today as a result of CaboKen's posting. Gerry has included some very interesting notes about the general area of the grounding, Mag Bay.
Here is what Gerry says, "Bahia Sabastian Vizcaino and the large bay just north of Cabo San Lorenzo (Mag Bay area) were both avoided by sailing across their mouths. THE WIND AND TIDE SET YOU EAST (*my emphasis) onto the surfing beaches of these lee shores. I made my crew read several magazine articles about boats that had come to grief here, in order to impress upon them the seriousness of the situation.................visibilty was so bad that we never saw the nav. light and next day the only way we knew we were passing the entrance to Magdalena Bay was by the tidal flow and debris coming out of it's mouth." Gerry says that he generally stayed 20 to 30 miles offshore on his passage south, especially at night.
Gerry goes on to say, "These DMA charts of the Pacific Coast of Baja are more accurate than the surveys of the inside of the Gulf of California...............All copies of these charts including the electronic navigation systems based on them are dangerously off station, in many places as much as 2 miles."
The grounding of the CHARLOTTE B is of interest to me for several reasons, not the least of which is that I will be making this same passage south later this year. I will be pulling into Mag Bay for a day or two. You can be sure that I will enter in broad daylight and that I will be visually checking for reference points and landmarks ashore and watching my depth sounder very carefully. Oh yes, the radar will be on in case visibility is diminished.
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peg
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Posted: Fri Nov 17th, 2006 06:50 pm |
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A few more details have emerged about this mishap that occurred last May.
I passed the spot where the boat went aground last week on my boat. We were part of the Baja Ha Ha fleet.
Evidently this boat was trying to make the entrance to Mag Bay. They were running too close to shore and hit an uncharted, submerged rock about three miles south of the entrance. The rock tore off the starboard stabilizer and left a hole in the hull. The crew tried to beach the boat on what they thought was a sand beach but turned out to be strewn with large boulders. The deceased crewman tried to jump from the boat to the rocks to tie a line. He was caught in the surf and apparently suffered a head injury that proved fatal.
The boat was not salvaged and is still there on the rocks, but it apparently has been stripped clean.
On the trip down the Pacific Coast of Baja, I was able to confirm with my radar that the charts for Mexico are off by as much as three miles in some locations. My best recommendation when boating in Mexico is don't rely soley on your instruments, "abreojos".........."open your eyes".
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soloskipper
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Posted: Sat Nov 18th, 2006 09:22 am |
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| Peg, do you have a boat in the San Carlos area?
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