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bartmanaz
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 01:49 am |
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Joe
I won't speak for anybody else but finding a mysterious case of Pacifio in cans on the back deck of A'Maze-n-Blue is always welcome. 
Thanx
Bart
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Lime and salt
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 03:10 am |
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Everytime I get on this forum I feel better and better about my decision to locate in SC for my fishing habit. Safety is my first concern out there especially when my 77 year old father is my fishing buddy. Thanks for all the great info.
Joe
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fishinmagishin
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 04:51 am |
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Joea,
Small bills, and many of them..
I need to get down to your house and look at the teasers.. Maybe this weekend??
FM,
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Hook
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 05:05 am |
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Just wondering why you guys like to set your GPSs to true north? Are you using it in conjunction with the latest Terrafin printout that you are carrying and there is no "rose" on those?
I generally go with magnetic so my GPS jives with my compass. Any GPS failure and I'm not having to figure the difference mentally. I do carry charts and a parallel rule, though, as a backup.
What charts are you guys use offshore? FishNMap? old DMAs?
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joea
Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 06:02 am |
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| We are in SC now. We will be here until the 17th of next month and then back after the first of June.
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bartmanaz
Administrator
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 03:14 pm |
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Hook
My GPS is set to magnetic, nautical miles for distance and knots for speed. My handheld backup is set the same way. As to charts, I carry the FishNMap and Gerry Cunningham's Central Gulf Plotting chart.
I have probably 3 dozen waypoints loaded in the boat's GPS. These are basically nothing more than azimuths and distances from Punta Dobles. On the outbound leg, we'll decide where we want to fish and set the nearest waypoint if its close. If I do not have a waypoint entered that is close to the target area, then I keep the GPS pointed at my Punta Dobles waypoint and steam away from it. The back azimuth keeps me on course and the GPS measures how far out we've gone. In these waters, outbound headings will generally be between 150-270 degrees. So for example, if i want to head out 20 NM on 160 and have no waypoint for that area, I steer 160 by the compass and GPS heading, and watch the back azimuth (bearing to the selected waypoint which is behind me) on the GPS which would be 340. If I stay plus/minus 2-3 degrees from 340, I am on course to my target area.
Once we reach the target fishing area, I usually keep the GPS pointed to the Punta Dobles waypoint. I may change periodically to another waypoint to move between different target areas but once I arrive then the GPS is pointed back to Punta Dobles.
I do this for several reasons. One, if the GPS crashes, I know the general direction and distance to get home. Two, if we are fun fishing, it is pretty easy to figure out when to leave to get home at a reasonable time. Three, if we are tournament fishing, I really need to know when to head in either at cruise speed or at trolling speed to be able to get in before the scales close. Four, if we have a problem and I need help, I can simply give mag bearing and distance from PD, plus lat/long so someone can find us. And finally, it makes it really simple to answer the inevitable question from my wife/son/guest, which is "How far out are we?"
Steve pointed out in a previous post that precise fishing spots beyond the 100 fathom line (600 ft) in the Sea of Cortez off San Carlos are pretty sparse because there is little structure and we are basically fishing in a giant bowl. So listen to the radio and if they ain't bitin where you are and they are where someone else is, you can usually pick up their location by azimuth and distance from PD or Marina Real. After a bit of time, you learn which boats come from which marinas and can guestimate their adjusted location pretty quickly. Most of us will pretty readily share info on the hot bite or a long line or hazard location on the radio.
This wound up becoming an involved answer to a simple question but maybe it will help somebody become more confdent in their navigation in these waters. And I just know somebody will read this who has no GPS. My simple answer to that is go the store and buy one-even a small handheld GPS will provide the information needed to get to the fish and get home safely.
Tight lines
Bart
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Hook
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 05:14 pm |
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Thanks, Bart. Your reasoning on the use of magnetic instead of true north jives with mine.
Your use of a prominent "home base" landmark as your waypoint in traveling offshore is also something I do. Since it is constantly in view, if the GPS fails, I can usually remember what the bearing was back to that spot. Also lets you know how long it will take to get back. Of course I carry a handheld, too.
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Catch-22 Steve
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 05:49 pm |
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Hook& Bart- Interesting Point about Mag North,and I fully understand why you guys use it, with that said the real Idea of my post was to get all of us on the same page, I'm not sure how to set up one of those voting poles that this site has but we should set one up for this subject True or Magnetic , then we should vote and the Idea would be we all set up the same, It makes good sense to share info and in an emergency it could be life saving , 11deg at 20 miles out is like a 6 mile separation.
tight lines Steve
ps; I just Double checked and Terrafin use's Mag also , Maybe I'm a goof ball here and should change my stuff to mag.
Last edited on Fri Apr 28th, 2006 06:13 pm by Catch-22 Steve
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Stuart
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 06:46 pm |
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Excellent point, Steve. I'm with you -- let's all get on the same page so we're talking apples to apples when we're out there. I'll add that once we come to some agreement, that perhaps Bart could create a sticky thread named "Navigating Local Waters" and post the results for all who come here to read. For example:
When fishing in San Carlos waters, the majority of local boaters use the following settings:
VHF Radio - Channel 68 for hailing and general traffic.
GPS - Bearings are given with reference to Magnetic North, not True North.
Distance - Nautical miles are used for reference, not Statue miles.
Speed - Knots
Distances and bearings you hear on the radio are from one of two references:
Punta Dobles (San Carlos Marina - ??) or Marina Real
This kind of info is invaluable to somebody new fishing the area. I wish I would have known it from the beginning. Just from this thread, we can see that while some of us were set the same, some of us weren't (including me!).
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LimeyLInda
Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 06:52 pm |
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I believe both are needed. Why,? it is impractical to steer on a "true" bearing using a compass. Location( waypoints) are charted true position (TP) so, using the deviation a course can be plotted. The reason for this is the deviation changes over time because the earth wobbles on it's axis. Example: very old chart, wrong deviation rose. A good example would be an emergency as follows:
SOS: I have a seriously injured person on board, my true position is....../....... and my heading is 160 degrees Mag. towards ????. at approx 20 knots.
In that way a rescue service knows where you are and where you are going and at what speed.
Just an opinion. Regards
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bartmanaz
Administrator
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 07:40 pm |
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LL
Here is the key point on this. If I know your lat/long it makes absolutely no difference whether I am using true or magnetic navigation to go from my position to yours.
I once gave a lat/long position for a long line on the radio and someone came back and asked if that position was true or magnetic. There was a brief pause...and the channel was then filled with laughter.
Why? Because a lat/long is an absolute spot on the face of the earth. How one steers to go to that spot is dependent on mag or true but the beauty of GPS is it does all that figgering for us. So if you call and give your lat/long and I punch those numbers into my GPS, the system will lead me to you regardless of how I navigate.
To Stu and Steve's point, I'll put up a survey. Think we also need to come to some agreement on where those home points are. Because we are out of MSC, I use a home point called Punta Dobles that is located so that I can see both lights at the entrance to the marina bay, see the rock in the channel and also see San Pedro Island. That means mine is probably 500-1000 yards farther south than Stuart's.
We need Steve to give us a common reference point for those coming out of MR. If we can come to some agreement on where those points are, we can publish as lat/longs and everybody can load in their GPS.
Thanx
Bart
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bartmanaz
Administrator
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 07:49 pm |
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Survey is up-please cast your vote
Thanx
Bart
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Catch-22 Steve
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 07:50 pm |
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I agree Long/lat is the way to go ,and by far the most accurate ..No Question, I for one almost Never use that feature in my Gps. I can do it but it takes me about 10 min. to figure it out ( I need my 15 year old daughter to show me all that hi-tech electronic stuff) In a panic I may never Get it !!
Stuart has a great Idea about posting all are local Info permantly on this site
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LimeyLInda
Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 08:01 pm |
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Hi Bart
I believe we are saying the same thing, although I may not have expressed my thoughts too well. A TP is a TP, how you get between point A and B is a matter of choice. Sign posts, compass, GPS etc. Sorry, I have never owned a GPS but managed to get across the Atlantic with a sextant, watch, tables, rumb line chart, etc.
I guess I need to move into the 21st century and learn GPS stuff, to replace my old dead reckoning habits.
Regards, T.
PS. this type of topic is very useful, thanks to all.
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bartmanaz
Administrator
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 08:01 pm |
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Catch-22 Steve wrote: Stuart has a great Idea about posting all are local Info permantly on this site
We'll do that as soon as we come to some agreement on the factors.
thanx
Bart
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bartmanaz
Administrator
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 08:17 pm |
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Re did the survey-please cast your vote.
Thanx
Bart
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bartmanaz
Administrator
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 08:26 pm |
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LL
Point well made. I learned how to do it the hard way as well. And those skills are important because you never know when technology is going to crash. In the days before GPS and such, I was "lost" once when a young NCO Ranger School graduate managed to march a night time patrol I was evaluating into an artillery impact zone at Ft Campbell! Fortunately the zone was not hot at theat time and I had been paying attention so we manged to extricate ourselves with no harm done-other than one very red-faced young Ranger. 
That's why I have those charts and parallel rulers and other nav tools stored on board. Never know when you might need 'em.
Thanx
Bart
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WJC
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 10:35 pm |
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For my first season here, I stored only one waypoint on my GPS. That point was Punta Doble. That way, I always instantly knew where I was in reference to home. Since I had no favorite fishing holes at that time, no other places mattered to me. Now, I have added several points, but still feel more comfortable not having the GPS all cluttered up with dozens & dozens of points.
As for the rest of it, I'm using magnetic headings, statute miles, and statute miles per hour. If this group settles on something different as a "standard" I will switch to that.
El Gringo
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Hook
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 11:09 pm |
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I am not a member of Terrafin, but have you guys seen this site? Now interfaced with Google Earth. Load the most current version of G. E. (or it will prompt you, if you dont have it) and it will display the temp info in the GE interface.
The non GE version doesnt have the detail as some of the other tempbreak locales (look under the pulldown menu at the top for other locales) but you still can drag the cursor to the temp break you are looking at and get the lat/long numbers off it.
Is Terrafin more or less advanced than this?
Oh yeah.....the link.
http://www.tempbreak.com/index.php?&cwregion=la
Last edited on Fri Apr 28th, 2006 11:10 pm by Hook
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No Sniveling
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Posted: Sat Apr 29th, 2006 12:19 am |
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Hey Hook,
Terrafin is substantially more refined, though this appears to be in the development stages. Terrafin updates twice daily for SST (cloud cover permitting), and once daily for chlorophyll scan (correlates to water clarity). The navigation feature (I could not figure out how to use one on this site?) is simple, it offers a slide shown scan of the last 7 satellite shots to track trends. If I was on a budget, this site would be a blessing, but if I was on a budget, I wouldn't have a boat!
 Craig
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