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tecate
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Posted: Tue Mar 25th, 2008 04:13 pm |
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The IGFA Certified Observer Program has come under fire from legal beagles. The following is a statement from the IGFA describing the present status of the program.
“We have made some significant changes to our observer training based on liability issues for IGFA. First you will notice that we no longer call it the Certified Observer Program. Instead, it is now known as the IGFA Observer Training Course (OTC). We no longer give individual tests because IGFA can no longer “certify” individuals. That is, IGFA can’t attest to the skill, character or aptitude of any observer participating in a tournament. We can only confirm that the individual has taken the class. It is now up to tournaments to select their own observers based on their own criteria.”
I know in the past we had our own local observer program. Could it be time for all the Tournament Directors and active participants to sit down and hammer out an observer program/handbook unique to San Carlos? The handbook could list individual and IGFA rules in Spanish and English that pertain to our tournaments. In addition, the book could include species identification and measurement calculations for deriving weights of billfish. Maybe we could convince 30 people to read the handbook, meet with tournament directors and agree to be observers. That way we could ensure the top 5 boats in all tournaments have San Carlos Observers onboard.
Finally, since I am on my soap box, I also think our current tournament volunteers need to be rewarded for their efforts. Why not pool our boats and at no cost to them, take them fishing this summer. We could have a one day Volunteer and Observer Tournament and I think it only fair that Pilo act as tournament control. As a noble gesture, I will personally take the Tecate and Pacifico girls on my boat.
Suerte
Mateo
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PQ Almada
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Posted: Tue Mar 25th, 2008 10:01 pm |
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I'll be hapy to be your mate 
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tantrum
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 12:25 am |
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| Matt, Have you had much input/feedback on the creation of an observer program for the SC tournaments? I would think that the tournament promoters and fisherman would benefit from such a program. Even if it meant that a few rotated between boats. More and more tournament participants are demanding it. I would guess that much has to do with the dollars invested. Good luck and let me know if I can help out. Jarrod
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tecate
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Posted: Sat Mar 29th, 2008 07:40 pm |
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Nada Nada on response Jarrod, thanks for the interest.
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TK
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Posted: Tue Apr 1st, 2008 02:01 pm |
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| I would be interested in being an observer for some of the tournments but would ask that some type of training or observer guide book/rules be put together so all know what to do, watch and record.
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tecate
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Posted: Tue Apr 1st, 2008 03:06 pm |
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Great TK!
I can't express how happy I am you are interested. PM me your contact information so I can start building a database of interested people. If we can get a handful more interested people, we will develop a study guide or class. Crawl, walk, run........
Suerte
Mateo
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Matt Blair
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Posted: Tue Apr 1st, 2008 10:41 pm |
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We would love to incorporate observers into the Cantina Cup! There are options out there for training which is obviously very important.
For those that may be interested, what incentives would help you want to participate? Matt mentioned an observer only fishing tournament, all expenses paid. That seems like a great idea. Other ideas?
Perhaps if you only had to commit to being an observer one day rather than both or all three days? I'd be willing to be an observer for a day or two this coming season.
Matt
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tantrum
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 05:07 am |
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| Maybe this should be posted on the main San CArlos website and of course all of the fisherman out there can share it with friends and family who frequent SC.
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bartmanaz
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 12:57 pm |
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We'll be happy to post but what do we post? Matt sez he's had little response even though 450+ views on this thread to date.
Think it is important to consider why observer programs in SC tournaments went away in the past. Would like to hear from tournament committees on their interest in bringing an observer program back. Ultimately, they will have to manage an observer program and my strong suspicion is there is not much interest in doing so.
How about it, committee and former committee members? Do you want an observer program?
Bart
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bartmanaz
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 01:23 pm |
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I've put up a poll in a separate thread. Please state your thoughts on this concept to give some feedback to the planners.
Thanx
Bart
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tecate
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 03:46 pm |
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Thanks Bart and Jarrod for giving this thread legs. I think it important to describe pros and cons of a tournament observer program to the casual reader or angler who is not familiar with the concept.
Most of our tournaments in San Carlos cite IGFA International Angling rules as the foundation of their rule determination and then add or subtract from that governing body (http://www.igfa.org/BookRule2004.pdf). The IGFA International Angling rules were established for the purpose awarding world records for fish caught in fresh and salt water and to assist the fish in overcoming the mechanical advantage the angler has during the fight. Fishing tournaments can be expensive events. Entrants pay fees for supporting the tournament cause, the spirit of competition and the gamble of winning awards. Awards range from prestigious trophies to millions of dollars. Tournaments committees introduced volunteer observers to their format to ensure entrants abided by rules of the tournament. Observers, versed in IGFA and individual tournament rules, ride along and enforce said rules.
Here are a few pros and cons:
Pro: Observers get to be involved in the trill of tournament fishing.
Con: Some times it’s a boat ride.
Pro: Spending the day on new state of the art boats.
Con: Fishing on my boat (bathtub with two big motors).
Pro: Spending a beautiful day on the ocean.
Con: Thanking god you are being force fed saltwater from waves coming over the bow. because you have something more to throw-up.
Pro: Ensuring tournament rules are being followed.
Con: Enforcing tournament rules. Always remember, no matter what the captain says he can’t legally throw you overboard.
Pro: Being part of an enthusiastic crew that is having a great day
Con: Being labeled bad luck and treated like a leper.
There are more but you get the idea.
Suerte
Mateo
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Grant
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 04:19 pm |
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Here is the #1 problems with observers
We don't know how many people are going to enter a tournament (in San Carlos)until right before it actually begins. It is hard to turn away last minute participants and even harder to guess how many observers we will need.
To make matters even more difficult, we have many smaller boats fishing tournaments in San Carlos. It is easy to find an observer willing to spend the day in the leather lined, air conditioned comfort of a 60 foot sport fisher. Not so easy on a 22' center console in September...
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AMC
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 04:38 pm |
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| I am interested. Would like to find out more info. I don't ever check this email account so will continue to monitor this topic. Thanks!!!
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Catch-22
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 07:08 pm |
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| Grant Has a good point. Here is another Idea ?bring in 10 observers only, draw straws for what boats they go on for day 1 ( I would rather have an Observer than a chance of a bad Photo) for day 2 send the Observers with the top 10 boats only. Camera's Decide results from day 1 on boats that did not have an Observer. day 2 ,Observers decide results ...if you come from 11th or further back on day 2 to win then your camera will decide(That Has never happened) Also gives all day Sunday to Get the film Developed from Saturday.....It's not perfect but a Start......
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Matt Blair
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 07:19 pm |
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I agree with Steve to have observers on the top boats for the final day or days, and Grant makes a good point about the smaller boats. Still, I think observers are the best way to ensure fair tournament results. Even if we had 5 observers, we would be in better shape. I know many tournaments do a random draw for observers so not every boat has one. It still helps keep the tournament results closer to honest.
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jcbjorn
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 07:27 pm |
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Bartmanaz,
Hello,
My name is Jon B., my wife, Carol and I are moving to SC mid May. I am a fisherman as is my wife. I would like to volunteer as an observer for some of the tournaments, but not all as I will probably enter some of the tournaments in our boat.
jcbjorn@gmail.com
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tantrum
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 04:43 am |
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| Maybe the cameras should still be required but legality of the catch could be scrutinized so there is no question in anyones mind of a fair catch. Unless all boats had observers.... Just my thought. Hope people see the pros vs cons. Grant in Costa Rica they had more observers than boats and some guys had to sit out, No big deal. They sat at the bar and stayed pretty entertained.....
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GOIT
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 04:58 am |
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| I would definately be interested in volunteering but would require training, also not sure how often I will be able to be down there but would love to help out when I am.
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bartmanaz
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 10:47 pm |
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These comments are from Dick Newlon, who as been the voice of San Carlos Fishing tournaments for many years.
I was either in charge or helping with the observers from 1992 till 2002 for the Labor Day tournament, so feel I am qualified to make some comments on this subject. First of all if you do not have an observer on every boat in the tournament then it is not fair to the ones that do not have an observer. It is much easier to touch a leader than to get a qualifying picture of the catch. This will result in an uneven playing field for all participants. In the years I was involved we had between 20-30 boats entered each year. Believe me it was very difficult to find that many observers in San Carlos at that time of year. In those days we were lucky to have 20 good observers and the rest were bodies on the boats. It was necessary to have 4-5 alternates as people would get sick, drunk, or whatever and not want to go out a second or third day. We also had pre-registration which closed 30 days prior to the tournament so we would know how many observers were required. It was necessary to have the boats give us their Marina, dock, and slip number so the observers would know where to go each day. This was not an easy task as some boats were hauled down from the states a day before and did not know this information. In addition to the above it was very expensive to have the observers as we had to give them hats, shirts, breakfast (Labor Day tournament only), and diner for them and their spouses. We have been using cameras in lieu of observers in three tournaments for the past 5 years, San Carlos Yacht Club/Rescate (4 years), Labor Day (5 years), and Cantina Cup (2 years), during this period of time have had to disqualify only two boats. For the Labor Day tournament in this period of time we have released 186 billfish and had to disqualify one boat.
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No Sniveling
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Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 12:37 am |
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The "Golden Voice" didn't get that gray beard without earning it!
It sounds like past experience has proved that using (or especially requiring) observers might entail some issues. I know that there is no room in my little boat for one, but aside from that, what problem is the addition of observers the solution to? It sounds as if there are PC, veiled references to possible cheating? I have several friends who have asked about that, knowing the amount of money involved in some of our "little events". I think the most relevant point is the "all observers, or, no observers". There is definitely a lot more involved in making SURE you have a picture of the leader, fingers, and fish, than having someone see you touch the leader. The preparation for having enough qualified people, when you don't know what that number is until the night before the event would require another full-time body working the event. Nothing that I see (having never fished a tournament with observer) points to any advantage other than to catch cheating. If that is the problem, I suggest we reduce the amount of $$$ at stake, add a few more trophies, and that will take care of itself. I would also think we could consider a larger share of the entry to go to the beneficiary charity or agency - less prize and more pride!
Just my $.02 
No Sniveling!
Last edited on Sat Apr 5th, 2008 12:40 am by No Sniveling
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