| Author | Post |
|---|
bartmanaz
Administrator
|
Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 01:16 am |
|
Craig, you make a couple of really thought provoking points. Think it is interesting that the Zaragoza International tournament is entering its 61st year and uses neither cameras nor observers, with no monster jackpots for releases and optional day money only for one big fish-now food fish only, if memory serves me right.
We were fortunate enough to take top boat point honors in that event a few years back and won a bunch of ironwood and no cash and I'm just as proud of that win as winning the SCYC/Rescate event.
Dick, I'm really curious going back into the observer tournament days, how many disqualifications can you recall based on the observer calling a foul? I don't recall any but have no where near your experience. What do you recall?
Thanx
Bart
|
hans
Member
| Joined: | Thu Oct 27th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 204 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: |    |
|
Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 02:54 am |
|
I was ones a Observer, and i enjoyd it very much. Thank`s to Dick Newlon.
I would like to Volunteer again, and Yes , a Big Yacht is great, with everything onboard. Also a small Boat i have enjoyed and we had big Waves. I got sick , but still i have enjoyd to be an Observer.
There is an other Idea.
Here in Hermosillo are Young People that Studie Tourism. Im am sure they could work as Observers and most of them Speak some English . They will enjoy to help out (thats a real expirience with Tourism). If you go back to the Observer Program i may could speak to the Principle of these Universities.
Saludos Hans (http://www.interio.com.mx)
|
Dick Newlon
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 26th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 92 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 04:39 am |
|
| Bart, can not remember ever having a dq from an observer calling a foul.
|
marvin
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 17 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sat Apr 5th, 2008 11:15 pm |
|
A few years back, I was an observer in a tournament. There was a hook up and one person grabbed the pole. He played the fish for a while then asked for help. I told the captain that if anyone els touches the pole it would be disqualified. He was rather irrate, but had to help bring in the fish anyhow.I don't think a camera would catch this. I wish observers were back and I would definatley volunteer again.
Gerald
|
Dick Newlon
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 26th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 92 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 03:33 am |
|
| Gerald, did you report this infraction on your fish caught report?
|
marvin
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 17 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 06:42 pm |
|
| Yes I did Dick, and the boat dropped out of the tournament the next day. Havn't seen them since.
|
edgie
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 26th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 37 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2008 06:03 pm |
|
As a particapiant l would like to weigh in on a couple of thoughts. I have fished tournaments both ways and can say without a reservation that i would much prefer observers to the camera's. the dergree of dificulty goes way up for the crew when you have to keep the fish under control long enough to cordinate the picture.
As Bart has stated it is a far easier to quickly back down to the leader get a touch then let the chips fall where they may. There are two additional points i would like to make however.
First if people think that having observers eliminates controversy my experience tells me the oppisite. People will be People,observers and anglers, and there seems to be a added area of contraversy with observers. Ex of things you here in osbserver tourneys. THEY DID NOT KNOW THE RULES ! OBSERVER WAS BIAS ! oBSERVER WAS DRUNK! oBSERVER WAS PARTNERED WITH CREW! Not to be negetive but those are the type things you here on the docks. Without them you here this guy was cheating , that guy was cheating, they caught the same fish 3 times ect. So if the thought is it will eliminate controversy i feel it is a waste of time and energy for the tournament directors.
The second thought is that if we are going to fish with observers you need to let the anglers know prior to tournament sign-up and not at the last minute. I can only speak for the PRIME TIME crew but we have a completely different rigging tschnique for the two different secenros. ex. Measured max leader and double line length virsus controlable length for ease of handeling and getting picture.
Just my thoughts
Eddie
PRIME TIME
|
tantrum
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 23rd, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 137 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 06:38 am |
|
Eddie you bring up some good points. WIth IGFA observers the hope is that these guys and gals are held to a high standard of rules and ethics, they take pride in what they do and have spent a lot of time and money becoming observers, all sounds reasonable to me... No human is 100% perfect though. A motley group of good and bad observers, put together half ass with no instant replay in place may leave tournament organizers in unchartered waters. Sort of like the day Steve C. and I threaded the needle through the funnels clouds hoping we popped out the other side unscathed.
There is substantial probability that there will be questionable calls having anything but the very best structured observer program in place. The cameras appear to work well and someone's idea of adding observers to compliment the system already in place sounded like a good idea on the surface. Handling the fish for a pic is cagey work at times and an observer in lieu of cameras would have added a few points to the boards I'm sure. But losing a fish for a pic is also part of the risk involved in participating in the tournaments. One reasonable idea brought up was having rover observers on a draw system of some sort. We accommodated Walt from the IGFA in the Cantina Cup Day one and had a good time with the guy on board. I even ran into him in Costa Rica and he looked forward to a return to San Carlos.
When in costa rica this year one of our peers, and or most of his team, witnessed the release of a sailfish that was called in as a marlin. In all the excitement it was assumed that the observer did not even look to verify species. If I recall that 500 point vs 100 point fish put that competitor into the lead. We have a different point system but the example shows that things are imperfect with even the best of observers.
One question to pose might be what can be put into place to best prevent potential mishaps, wrongdoings and or questionable practices that best compliments the current system in place, and increases participation? A few things that I have heard through the grapevine and in confidence are a mix of loony and a little concerning. Generally it has been my belief that the points leaders are being swarmed and playing games is just not an option. Having won some money and watched friends rake it in too, it troubles me a little bit to think that the winners' fairness is in question. I also don't think anyone wants to believe that this behavior could ever occur in San Carlos but then again they just ran out some creep for stealing money, or so I read on a another board. The tournament directors and all participants should view this as an opportunity to support the current system and if desired, enhance what's in place to the benefit of everyone involved. I also have to wonder that if an anonymous protest opportunity existed if it would be utilized. I for one would not want to be the one calling someone out for cheating(too busy fishing) nor do I believe that the burden should fall on the shoulders of the participants due to the God awful backlash that could occur being in the comfy little heaven of a fishing ground we call San Carlos. I truly see this debate as an opportunity to preserve the ethics of competition and to increase the dollars up for grabs. If nothing needs to be changed so be it. if anyone has seen improvement to a tournament anywhere around the globe throw it out there. I am truly enjoying the thoughts of everyone involved. -Jarrod
|
edgie
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 26th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 37 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 03:16 pm |
|
Jarrod,
Maybe we are trying to kill a fly with a shotgun. I do not feel that we can run under two seperate sets of rules, One for cameras and one if a observer is on board.
what if for simplicity we ran tournament by the camera rules and for additional peace of mind we had a pool of qualfied observers (6 to 15 ) that were randomly drawn the first day and assigned to top boats the last day. we could look to the observers to enforce general fair-play rules (not to certify catch ) and let the camera do the rest.
the tounament commitee could even develope a specific list that defines the duties and limits of the observer ,making ther job easier.
Just Thinking out loud
Eddie
|
bartmanaz
Administrator
|
Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 03:46 pm |
|
I have a real problem with the concept of some boats get observers and some do not. To me that is the same as saying the top golfers in a tournament get a walking rules official and some do not, or in the 4th qtr of the football game only the leading team offense will have referees watching. Huh??
Let's get back to the crux of the issue-what is the problem we think we are trying to solve? Do we suspect the winners are cheating? I don't and think the distribution of boats in top places since the advent of the camera system supports that. Good teams on good boats are going to fare well-that should not come as a surprise.
While I agree that it is a shame if a contender loses high placement due to bad camera work, think that can be solved the same way going to circle hooks on dead bait in tournaments is being solved---practice.
I appreciate those that have posted and indicated an interest in becoming observers. But I am not convinced that the benefits to be gained are worth the cost in implementing an observer program that is sufficent to support all who want to participate as angling teams.
Bart
|
Dick Newlon
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 26th, 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 92 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 03:55 pm |
|
| Amen
|
marti gras
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 24th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 181 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed Apr 9th, 2008 12:42 am |
|
| If it aint Broke....................................................................?????
|
bartmanaz
Administrator
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 01:25 am |
|
Going back to the original thought in this thread of a vounteer tournament, here is my thought-more to come manana in a new post
Run as a volunteers/captains tournament-boat owners put up the $$ and keep it low key, non-pressure and FUN. Captains in one category and voluneteers in another and if we want to build a purse for the captains, not an issue-volunteers compete for trophies
volunteers very broadly defined-include all the great folks who contribute their time to san carlos charities
timeframe: veterans day weekend Nov 7-9 when most san carlos reverse snowbirds are back and fishing is still very ggod
Hold comments til I can start a new thread, manana
Thanx
Bart
|
Current time is 02:01 pm | Page:   1 2 |
|
