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SIXTY
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Posted: Thu Nov 29th, 2007 12:14 am |
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trim tabs and trimmed down motors work good on the mako into a 2 foot chop & I pull up the tabs for down swell. Side swells, I need to keep the bow from digging into the trough & pitching the hull. I could see where a cat would handle that situation very well.
I was wishing for a pilot house on the way to bird island. I put out a deep diving pink Repala & a green yellow feather hoping (running 6 knots into the swell and it was pretty dry) for some stray yellow tail, but no luck.
8-10 in a bay runner, I'm sure it was white knuckle, what direction were the swells? I told the guys on Sunday I may try for the 51 and they said if the winds built not to try for penasco, but instead head for San Felipe.
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SIXTY
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Posted: Thu Nov 29th, 2007 12:20 am |
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JZ wrote: 8' to 10' isn't chop! 1 to 2 is chop. When I think of a swell I think of waves with a long period (interval) generated hundreds of miles away. You can take almost any boat out in even a 20' swell with a very long period. You find those on the West coast in the Pacific. We have very few swells in the SOC, maybe when a hurricane is blowing way down south or there is a storm over near Baja. We have lots of wind waves with a short period impacted by tital conditions.
I've been in 20' swells on the Pacific. The only thing that scares you is you can't see anything when you are in the trough. Being in 8'-10' footers on the SOC is a hell of a lot more scary.
Take those 20' swells & add 4' wind chop in a different direction & it can get very exciting.
I've only seen 8'+ wind chop from the shore & knew I did not want to be out there.
The better panagas have a steep, tall bow to keep you dry in wind chop. After spending alot of time on a center console when I was younger, I would never want an open bow boat like a panga. It gets very miserable with a wind chop, especially if you have to make a 20+ mile run.
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jmichael
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Posted: Thu Nov 29th, 2007 03:56 pm |
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| Stuart, have you ever had a white knuckle ride in your Cat? What's it take to do that to the Constancia?
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AcuDoc
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Posted: Thu Nov 29th, 2007 05:06 pm |
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Worst I've been in the SOC in my boat (16.5' Klamath 50hp center console) was a few years ago of Santa Rosalia/San Lucas Cove. The first 4-5 days of the week were flat,flat, flat and even went to Tortuga. The next couple days, of course the two days of the fishing tourney, it was 3-4 foot the first day and the second was 5-6 foot swells...loads of fun...
I handled the boat and my buddy tried to fish. We were with a group of small boats of Isle San Marcos. Some big yellowtail caught that day but not by us. Fish Pit Dave from San Lucas Cove got first place.
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Stuart
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Posted: Thu Nov 29th, 2007 06:07 pm |
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jmichael wrote: Stuart, have you ever had a white knuckle ride in your Cat? What's it take to do that to the Constancia?
Only once, but not due to weather. The rear port bilge pump broke right at the plastic nipple where the hose attaches to it, allowing seawater to flood the port sponson. Didn't notice anything while we were anchored up and fishing. However, when we headed in, she was listing heavy to port and I couldn't get her to trim up and ride level. Had to slow way down and it was during January, so it got dark in a hurry on the way in. It was after 6:30 when we got back and the launcher had a heck of a time pulling us out of the channel. I opened the port access hatch to see what was going on and the whole sponson was flooded, right up to the batteries! I pulled the plugs and there must have been several hundred gallons of water in there. Further investigation led me to the culprit bilge pump. I ended up replacing all the battery cables and rewiring all of the connections because of the saltwater damage. It was one of those "Could of been a helluva lot worse!" moments, but is also a testament to how well the ProKats are built.
I inquired about putting check valves in line with the bilge pump hoses, but it was recommended not to do this at the time. I have noticed that the newer Johnson style pumps have changed, though. They now have a type of check valve in line and they've also gone to an electronic sensor for automatic activation, rather than the old "float switches," which were notorious for sticking and not activating when you needed them. Three of the original bilge pumps on my boat all broke right at the nipple -- it's a common failure with those types of pumps. The plastic gets stressed over time and that's where they break.
Weather-wise, I've been in some pretty rough stuff in the cat, but have never felt unsafe. Uncomfortable, yes, due to being bounced around and getting wet, but never white-knuckled due to fear. It's a big boat; I keep it in tip-top shape. I haven't been in any conditions to date that scared me. I've also learned to stop being the eternal optimist about the "seas laying down" and if it's looking white capped and rough, I don't go out, or just head back in after a short time.
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jmichael
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Posted: Thu Nov 29th, 2007 06:22 pm |
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| That's a lot of water. Had you known while you were fishing, I'm sure the ride home would have included a lot more anxiety. 10-4 on those bilge pumps. What brand did you replace them with? And, what brand were they? Last edited on Fri Nov 30th, 2007 02:40 pm by jmichael
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SIXTY
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Posted: Thu Nov 29th, 2007 06:50 pm |
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Stuart,
If you have room above the thru hull, you could add a loop with possbily a vent to keep that from happening again. Also, you may want to support the hose somewhere near the pump to eleviate flex induced fatigue.
I'm not very impressed with Johnson bilge pumps. The 1600gph I installed lasted 1 day in salt water and had pumped probably less than 30 gallons total. I replaced it with the original Rule 1500gph that had tons of use and it worked flawlessly. What size pump do you use? I cannot find any of the larger pumps that have automatic controls. I'm not a big fan of the standard float switches.
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Stuart
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Posted: Fri Nov 30th, 2007 03:00 pm |
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I replaced the old Johnson bilge pumps with West Marine's brand cartridge pumps. Probably made by Johnson for West Marine. It was the easiest option at the time. I have four pumps and I think they are all 1200 GPH capacity each.
When (not if) I replace these four, I'll probably change to high-end Rule pumps.
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jmichael
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Posted: Fri Nov 30th, 2007 04:11 pm |
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| This thread started about pangas and seems headed toward keeping water out of the boat. I've nearly finished getting my outfit ready and changing the four bilge pumps on my 2860 is on the list. They are shur-flow 1000's and still work, but they are 3 years old and should be replaced. (More spare parts. Boat owners love spare parts. ) The Rule pumps are my choice for replacements, not sure which ones are best. My sponsons remain dry on the water, I only get bilge water when it rains hard, 2-4 gallons each side. I use a shop vac at home to drain the bilge as it rarely is enough to kick on the bilge pumps. I've pulled the plugs, but never had any water near my engines. I would imagine that I should plan on my Pro-Kat getting wet in the SOC. jmichael
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hightide
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Posted: Fri Nov 30th, 2007 07:21 pm |
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Thereis a fishermanom am island close tp Lareto, who says he takes his Panga out in 10 to 15 footerswithout hesitation. He is a commrecial fisherman and has a dep V botton with the outboard attatched to thr back. He sats in the summer months he has no choice because of the quotas he has to meet to live on the island close to Lareto with his family and other fisherman families. I wish him luck\Hightide
Anyone got any good swamper/big swell sur vival stories to share ?
[img]http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:MoVgHItQ-C0g5M:http://www.cheynehoran.com.au/bigwaves/boat.jpg[/img]
Attachment: HG42ELCAF32VI7CAS5EHJQCA1PKXNSCAQ1Z7W2CAY4H3JQCA3UQWAGCAA89ZRFCA93OG3XCA9TDYYICA4MN15JCANI6MBUCALTH1BXCAH9QXPXCAE9A2X6CA6XJJP7CA1O5S30CAE77UOLCAUYVKH6CAF60V6I.jpg (Downloaded 125 times)
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SIXTY
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Posted: Fri Nov 30th, 2007 10:01 pm |
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I have a good BIG wave story that matches that pic pretty well. I'll post it when I get a chance.
Edit:
I lived in Kona and had my 18' boat for about a year. It was a late 70's ski boat that had been gutted with a new deck installed, the typical Hawaiian cab and a 1995' 85hp Yamaha. I had been doing a lot of blue water as well as reef fishing and was getting proficient at both. My brother & father came in to town for a few days, but the swells were up (10-15') and the wind had been raging for a few days.
We finally had a window to make it out with out much chop, so we went out & worked the blue water for 4 or 5 hours for nothing. In the winter the bite can be unpredictable so I figured I would get them on some fish in a few of my reef spots. After a couple of hours we had four or five snappers & a few good sized Barracuda., so we decided to call it a day.
When we were approaching the harbor mouth, there is a great reef just off to the north that I wanted to drag the lures over. This is a spot called "Jurassics" because it has a surf break that rarely ever breaks, needing a very large swell in just the right direction. I had never seen it break so I did not give it much thought. 1/2 way across the reef we were in about 12' of water I gave the helm to my brother so I can start pulling in the gear. Just as I get to the stern I hear my brother yell "OH S--t" I looked out to the reef edge & there was about an 18' face building heading right at us. I dove forward I hammered the throttle all the way down. We raced forward & barely made it around the white water and on to the shoulder. We made it over making probably 20 knots at about a 70d angle to the wave. I'm not sure how much air we got, cause as soon as we crested shoulder, the wave behind it was already breaking and was probably 22-23' face. As soon as the prop caught in the trough, I hit it full throttle again and repeated the same story on the next shoulder.
That experience scared the heck of me & taught me to always expect the unexpected on the ocean. We could have all been easily killed. The power of a 20' breaking wave on the reef would have broken the boat into pieces. The waves weren’t rogue, just a very large set for the day. Just as we pulled into the harbor, a guy I used to fish with was pulling in & saw the whole thing. He said it looked crazy... too bad it wasn't on film!
One other story I just remembered
Same harbor, about 1-year later. It was Christmas time & there had been a huge push of fish into the area. This was not normal for this time of year, especially since there were some very large fish. I had been out 2 or 3 times in the past week & had a 200lb+ Ahi break off 2 days before. There was a VERY LARGE west swell with sets breaking in the 20-25' range all up and down the coast. My buddy & his 11 year old step son (who loved to pull on fish) and myself, pulled the boat down to the harbor. I figured since the water was flat and it would not be too difficult to make it out of the harbor by timing the sets, we would not have much trouble.
We sat in the harbor & there were only a couple of trailers parked (crazy Hawaiians) so I decided to watch the situation for awhile. The surge was worse than anything I had ever seen in the harbor & since we had a kid with us we decided it was better not to launch. On the way back out of the harbor, we saw the waves crashing to the south on the cliff shooting white water probably 40' in the air above the 20' cliffs. We decide to take the short hike out & watch the action.
We were out at the cliffs for about 10 minutes & there were a few tourist boats (30' panga style boats with about 10 tourists on each) coming in real close to the cliffs to watch the spectacle. The second boat that came in pulled to within probably 200' of the cliff & everyone including the captain had they're eyes toward cliffs. It was at this point that I saw the biggest waves I have ever seen in person, building probably 300 yards out. They were an honest 35-40' (My buddy is a lifetime surfer, who had lots of experience on the north shore & confirmed my eyeball measurements) & I knew they were going to pound this boat right into the cliff. I started to panic & ran the 100yards to the cliff in a dead sprint all the while screaming at the top of my lungs to the captain! After seeing me panic the captain turned around & saw what was happening. He gunned the boat & headed to a little opening in the in the cliff just as the massive wall of white water was bearing down on him. He got to with probably 20' of a cliff that was at 90d to the wave, gunned it directly at the wave and the perpendicular cliff kept about a 30' section of the wave from breaking long enough for him to climb & break the shoulder. If he would have been 1 second slower the boat would have had millions of pounds of water moving at 25knots smashing them into other cliff. I had to make a dead sprint back inland just as the wave pounded the cliff & put up a plume probably 100' over the top of the cliff. I got absolutely drenched but luckily did not get rolled across the lava.
I screamed and yelled more cuss words than I could possibly ever repeat at that captain. I was shaking like crazy from all of the adrenaline. Unfortunately I did not get his numbers or even the name off of the side of the boat, or I would have gone to downtown harbor they launch from & beat the h--l out of him, Hawaiian style and the turn him in. I'm sure that if something would have happened, I may have jumped with out thinking & would have had a good chance of losing my life.
The ocean in Hawaii (or anywhere for that matter) is no joke!
Sorry for the Hijack! Here is a pic of my old boat. It handled a 6' chop very well that would have swamped a similar sized boat without a cab. The cab made it a great rough water boat. We caught alot of fish on her.. I miss her 
Attachment: DSC00461.JPG (Downloaded 110 times) Last edited on Sat Dec 1st, 2007 12:59 am by SIXTY
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JZ
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Posted: Fri Nov 30th, 2007 11:18 pm |
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Attachment: Wave Jumping.jpg (Downloaded 112 times) Last edited on Fri Nov 30th, 2007 11:19 pm by JZ
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SIXTY
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Posted: Sat Dec 1st, 2007 12:39 am |
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| Another pic for old times sake , I prefer this style boat over a panga style, if not only for comfort. The cab makes for a very dry ride & will also keep from getting swamped while heading into big seas. Attachment: DSC00459.JPG (Downloaded 111 times)
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o-show
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Posted: Sat Dec 1st, 2007 07:13 am |
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hightide, if you really want a panga check this out. http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/PG25_study.htm?prod=PG25
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AcuDoc
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Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2007 05:51 am |
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Got this on the bajanomad board
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=28377
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Stuart
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Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2007 03:40 pm |
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SIXTY wrote: Another pic for old times sake , I prefer this style boat over a panga style, if not only for comfort. The cab makes for a very dry ride & will also keep from getting swamped while heading into big seas.
Talkin' about Hawaiian style, somebody that fishes Penasco has a nice Force boat. I've seen it once in the harbor, once out at the 51, and saw it last trip in Sonoyta heading back up the road. It is set up for fishing grouper or deep-dropping with four swivel, bent rod holder bases. They crank the fish with the rods in the holders.
It's a beautiful diesel powered boat with a nice big fish hold on it. Eisenglass front covers, rather than a fiberglass cabin. The only thing I didn't like about it is how low the gunnels are to the water. Extremely short!
When I was in the boat market, I tried to find more info on the Force boats, but there is next to nothing on the web about them. I did manage to locate a couple for sale, in Hawaii, of course. And those ones were very well used!
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SIXTY
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Posted: Tue Dec 4th, 2007 04:46 pm |
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Stuart wrote: Talkin' about Hawaiian style, somebody that fishes Penasco has a nice Force boat. I've seen it once in the harbor, once out at the 51, and saw it last trip in Sonoyta heading back up the road. It is set up for fishing grouper or deep-dropping with four swivel, bent rod holder bases. They crank the fish with the rods in the holders.
It's a beautiful diesel powered boat with a nice big fish hold on it. Eisenglass front covers, rather than a fiberglass cabin. The only thing I didn't like about it is how low the gunnels are to the water. Extremely short!
When I was in the boat market, I tried to find more info on the Force boats, but there is next to nothing on the web about them. I did manage to locate a couple for sale, in Hawaii, of course. And those ones were very well used!
I'm a HUGE Force fan. They are Built in Hilo, specifically designed for commercial fishing in Hilo's very rough waters. I've always thought the gunnels were very high (30"+/-) for a commercial vessel, especially compared to Radon's. Maybe that boat has a custom high deck for diving or something. I would love to see that Force. I would chase the guy down, even if for nothing more than to talk story  . I was very tempted to buy one in Hawaii & ship it back. There are some very good deals on them from time to time. The main reason I didn't, is they are designed specifically for commercial fishing & very short on amenities, therefore not useful for other activities. I think a Radon would be better suited for fishing RP. they have a very wide beam that is stable while drifting, The Forces are a bit less stable on the drift, but can handle very big seas once underway. They are also very well built (especially from the early 80's) and nearly indestructible.
Commercial boats don't have fighting chairs in Hawaii since they fight all the fish with the rod in the holder for trolling. Nearly all deep drop fishing is done by handline or electric reel when over 40 fathoms. I've seen the handline guys come in with 600lb+ marlin, caught solo on the handline... those guys are crazy!
Last edited on Tue Dec 4th, 2007 04:48 pm by SIXTY
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hightide
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Posted: Sat Dec 8th, 2007 11:00 pm |
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Too fancy for me
Thank You
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