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tantrum
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 05:28 am |
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I wondered how big this was going to be. Reports out of Cabo are crushing. I sure hope that change is on the way.
http://www.marlinnut.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/3008.html
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PQ Almada
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 06:10 am |
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That is just so wrong and so sad...I'm ashamed of the Mexican authorities, I'm ashamed of the fact that knowing how my own country works I feel pretty much unable to do anything…impotent, helpless, I have no words to describe how impotent I feel.
10,000 marlin that is just plain stupid 
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Dos Amigos
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 03:44 pm |
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The pictures you took are amazing!
The story you printed about the pillage of the marlin and other species is horrific and terrifying!
How can we as human beings even contemplate such senseless slaughter? Have we all gone mad to think that this way of fishing is acceptable, much less legal?
I personally am in shock after reading the info you posted. It is truly a sad day to be a sport fishermen in the Sea of Coretz with long liners everywhere.
Shame on all walks of life, Americans, Mexicans, Asians what have you as we are all in the end recipients of the by products of these massacres.
We must somehow find a way to convince governments that conservation is the key to a healthy, sustainable way of life.
The economies of the villages, towns and cities throughout the entire Sea of Cortez are in grave danger of becoming bankrupt due to this unlimited carnage.
I pledge to start a fund and become an avid fund-raiser to help stop this senseless and reckless depletion of the worlds oceans!
We MUST form a coalition to combat the terrible thinking of any government that supports this way of fishing.
Without it the Sea of Cortez and all other oceans will become vast pools void of any marine life what so ever.
Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated on how to stop the mass murders going on now.
Sincerely,
Tom Shepard
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No Sniveling
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 04:57 pm |
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Does anyone know the position taken by the IGFA as far as lobbying for controls of overfishing? I would think that the time and place to mount an offensive would be during the Cantina Cup, since they are now sanctioning that event. With some of the high visibility businesses (Melton's, Eagle Claw) involved, I would bet that a challenge to them to match funds donated by the participants would be within their budgets. Perhaps the event organizers of the Cantina Cup (and all the other local tournaments) could change the prize distribution to include 10% or 20% to be "voluntarily" donated by the winners. I just believe that we need a core sponsor of the effort that has an international base, and the IGFA is the first to come to mind.
The only other recourse we as anglers have is to boycott and picket at the marinas in an attempt to gain coverage by the media. That would put an unfair economic burden on the local industry - the marinas, charter services, and dock workers - who have no fault in this travesty.
Comments?
Craig
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tecate
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 06:04 pm |
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Welcome to the revolution Craig.
I think I can speak for Matt B., Grant, Steve and Kevin when I say the Cantina Cup is all about conservation. This is why we approached the IGFA and why we have circle hooks in the rules. The IGFA has a huge lobby and have been very effective influencing Mexican fishing law. They are currently looking at us as an experiment.
The Cantina Cup is a non-profit tournament. None of us are paid for our work and dedication. All proceeds after the winnings. go to charity. We can get noticed. We just need to convince sponsors that San Carlos fishermen will support a tournament based on conservation. Help us get noticed. If potential sponsors find out we have 50+ boats entered in this tournament they will come with $$.
The board of the Cantina Cup welcomes you. Join us! We want generations of Mexicans and Americans to enjoy the SOC.
Matt
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tecate
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 06:12 pm |
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| By the way IGFA has noticed follow this link: http://www.igfa.org/shark_norma.asp
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Dos Amigos
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 06:57 pm |
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Hi Matt,
Clearly something needs to be done to ensure the future of all persons wanting to participate in ocean activities.
Maybe a charter membership as mentioned in the Shark Norma post in the fishing forum with the Mexican Billfish Foundation along with the Cantina Cup could be an awesome start.
We can not afford to sit idly by as these travesties occur daily. In the link you posted to IGFA there are literally 1.2 million hooks in the waters of the Sea of Cortez on any given day. Amazing and no chance for any species to survive that onslaught.
I am willing and ready to join any group that can slow down or eradicate this terrible and ill planned law that is in effect.
Tom
Last edited on Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 10:43 pm by Dos Amigos
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Fish on Bait
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Posted: Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 11:38 pm |
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Simply joining & supporting the IGFA is a step in the right direction their are variuos groups & support to help fight stupid incidents like what happened in cabo yesterday Fernando god love him is one of your best advocates Being a citizen of a country that can be supported to fight these crimes by a group of sportfisherming from a foreign country & locals is what could help.To stand back and just complain about fishing conditions in a country I dont live in is like illegal alliens coming to the USA flying our flag upside down and demanding rights and we all just do nothing
Last edited on Wed Jul 4th, 2007 12:26 pm by Fish on Bait
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Dos Amigos
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Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 01:42 am |
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Marti Gras
I am sure that your effort to support Fernando in a bid to change these laws around is very valid.
We have had these same discussions on the fishing forums under the caption Shark Norma.
Vince Radice has made contact with the Mexican Bill Foundation and is trying to get the president of that group here in order to possibly form a branch in San Carlos.
Fernando, Craig, I and countless others have pledged to attend the meeting once it is arranged.
Sea Watch has pledged to help the fight and we have bombarded the government with countless emails protesting this law.
It is not like we are sitting here typing our anger and not trying to do anything about it.
If there is an organization whether it be a start up headed by Fernando or a joint venture with MBF or a combination of people all on the same page then funding is not the question, I would think anyone that enjoys sportfishing and ocean activities in the Sea of Cortez would be happy to donate.
I hope that we are able to do something and I am willing to support it with money and time.
Regards,
Tom
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No Sniveling
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Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 03:12 am |
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As I said before, I am in - from the pen (or keyboard) to the wallet and I am sure we have many compadres willing to stand and be counted!
Those who live, looking at what used to be, will write on this board in twenty years of the times of glory we share today. Those who do something now will not write about what they did.
Craig
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B4
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Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 07:07 am |
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tantrum wrote: I wondered how big this was going to be. Reports out of Cabo are crushing. I sure hope that change is on the way.
http://www.marlinnut.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/3008.html
I think the way to stop commercial destruction of the resource may best be accomplished through basic economic principals. I haven’t worked it all out yet but I have some preliminary concepts to begin with.
If the local fishermen were compensated at a higher level through sport fishing than commercial fishing, they would naturally tend to follow that path. There is no doubt in my mind that these guys would prefer to fish with wealthy tourists than endure the demands and limited compensation and the low self esteem of the commercial opportunists, this is simple economics and human nature.
Would you rather fish with a couple babes in bikinis or spend your days destroying the abundant treasure for a bunch of jerks that pay you poorly and probably aren’t even members of your community?
How do you think the condo developers would like to depict the resource? Would it be to their benefit to portray the Sea of Cortez as a vibrant fishing opportunity or as a wasteland because of poor management? How much power do you think they wield in this process?
I’m thinking of something along the lines of promoting local pangeros and charter operators who have dedicated their talents to the tourist and sport fishing industry to a degree that they have no need or desire to waste their time destroying their recourses. This will take a Herculean effort but I don’t think it’s insurmountable. Modern media is a tool that can be very effective. If the tourists believe that they are actually contributing to the enhancement of the resource by hiring guides with a strong moral and ethical stance in preserving the resource, the local guides will be overwhelmed by business (the green effect). It should be the core focus of all their promotion campaigns. I don’t much care for the term “union” but these guys could form something like this and make a vow to never again use their talents to decimate the resource in exchange for the notoriety and publicity of an organization that promotes them on a world wide platform, i.e. the Internet. For the sake of argument, call them the “Mexican Fishermen for the Preservation of the Sea of Cortez”. I’m sure someone with a better grasp of the language than mine can make that sound like music.
Promotion is another issue. There are many media outlets that are looking for a do-good opportunity. I think the key is finding one that’s willing to deal with the irregularities of the Mexican political culture and has the patience to follow through with this. If the world of conservationists sees a grass roots effort, in a country like Mexico, working to overcome the commercial destruction of a resource, they’ll flock to the shores to be part of it. This could be a monumental boost to the tourist industry and the sport fishing industry in particular. The trick is, it has to be sustainable. It has to be well organized and those fishermen who are reluctant to join up have to be forgiven for their prior sins. After all, they’re just trying to feed their families. None of them are getting rich by netting or long lining. It’s imperative that they all be welcomed into the “union”. Over time, they’ll be the some of the best ambassadors of conservation the world has ever seen.
So, the catch is the media exposure. There are lots of glitzy fishing shows on the cable networks. Which one is willing to run with something like this? Which one is willing to endure the political upheavals and lack of glamour factor? Which one is willing to make a long-term commitment to this issue?
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Fish on Bait
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Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 02:50 pm |
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| Not a bad idea How many longliners are employed & what are the wages? can a group of people employ these people to do do other things with out just being replaced? I dought it I think the formation of a group to support the longliners in a way they wont destroy the oceans & provide them income maybe a resolution.
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bartmanaz
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Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 03:34 pm |
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Going back to the days of Amigos del Mar de Cortez, now defunct, the concept went something like this.
First the revenue generated from the sale of fishing licenses and boat permits would go back into funding the enforcement of fishing regulations. Same basic concept as most US states use to fund their fish and wildlife management programs.
One of the basic problems is that while there are regulations on the books, there are few resources dedicated to enforcing those regulations. Other than tournaments, how many of you have ever had someone check to see if you have licenses or boat permits? Suspect the answer is very few, if any.
Assuming (bad word, I know) that the bureaucracy would allow the application of license and permit fees to be used in enforcement, then step two would be to re-train, educate and PAY the pangeros to become the wardens. Instead of the Navy occasionally stopping a boat at sea and doing the checks along with whatever else they are checking (guns, drugs, contraband), in would make more sense to have enforcement done at the point of embarkation/debarkation.
Hola amigo, you got fishing gear on your launcha? Show me your papers. No papers, step over here to get yours.
Hola amigo, how many dorado did you catch today? 10 per angler? Too many! Step over here to pay your fine. And the excess fish get confiscated and sent to the orphanage.
This is the concept that was the basis for the efforts in Baja. Believe it has also made possible the addition of other outlets for licenses/permits including Tag Charters, the Cooperativa office, Convention and Visitors Bureau, etc. Clearly a step in the right direction.
The real issue here is overcome a culture where fathers are fisherman and teach their sons to fish because that is all they know and this has continued for generations. Combine that with the big money that flows through those who buy and market the fish and have their own fleets of large commercial boats harvesting the catch, and you begin to understand the real issue. How do you tell the subsistence long liner or netter, who may not even be covering his fuel costs with his catch of dorado and marlin, that those fish are worth a lot more to Mexico if left for sport fisherman, because that ain't going to help him feed his family! As was mentioned in an earlier post, the redirection of this labor pool into areas that sustain the fishery and provide living wages is the challenge. Wish I knew how to do that-but I don't.
While I am as concerned as the next and believe enlisting the aid of the developers and big money folks is critical in preserving the fishery, I also have to point out that we in the USA do not have a real sterling record in managing our own fisheries. If you don't believe that, pick up any saltwater related fishing magazine and read an editorial or three. Our own management practices in US ocean waters are a joke. So let us all not be too hard on Mexico.
With that said, count me in.
Bart
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Vince Radice
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Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 03:36 pm |
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It is great to see these posts. Guillermo Alvarez has told me he is interested in coming to San Carlos to explain how he works with the state government in Baja and the Feds to conserve bill fish in the Baja. They are in the process of filling an injunction on norm 029 but that fishing law is in effect now and will continue to be in effect. Also I would like to mention that there are probably no 029 permits here in Guaymas so the local long liners here are not fishing with an 029 permit. After the bill fish fund finishes filling their lawsuit is should be realively easy to get Guillermo here for a meeting about the fishery and how he feels the local fisherman in San Carlos can join in and be a positive force for consevation. I have some ideas of my own.
No te preoccupes Fernando, hay bastantes cosas que vamos a hacer para la conservacion de picudos!
V
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justme
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Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2007 02:40 pm |
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Anybody heard about this Shark Norma update
class=mediumtxtFriday's edition of the Los Cabos Daily News reports more protests against the new shark law are planned for the Government Palace in Mexico City. Opponents of the law are finalizing legal strategies to overturn the law -- the article mentions the Mexican Marinas Association. Fishing industry associations are meeting with state secretaries in the nation's capital.
Stolen from the baja board
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Lime and salt
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Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2007 09:55 pm |
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| The word needs to get out to the thousands of sea food restaurants in the US. If they are buying from Mexican sources they are as guilty as the long liners. Unfortunately for the small independents this may hurt them for the time being but with the large commercial outfits they won't survive anyway. The new law will undoubtedly decimate the fish populations in the Sea of Cortez. As in nearly every grass roots cause these days media involvement is critical.
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Hook
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Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2007 11:38 pm |
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If the Mexican government had any backbone on this issue, they would do more than fine the operators of this vessel. They would give them some hard time in a Mexican prison and publicly sink this ship and make a new artificial reef out of it. That would go a long ways towards preventing this in the future.
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tantrum
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Posted: Mon Jun 25th, 2007 05:50 am |
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I think everyone agrees that the first fundamental change that needs to take place is not that of regulation but a change in peoples minds. Everyone from individual country's government officials to commercial vessels, recreational anglers and the general population must come to grips, viewing the oceans creatures as we do creatures living on land. Then maybe we can better regulate the resource to benefit everyone. Thats the hard part too.
Regulating areas to fish is a good start. Especially limiting commercial fishing in spawing areas and go back at minimun to the 50 mile rule. The possible creation of marine protected areas that are off limits for everyone. They do it in New Zeland and of course California. Could you imagine if the purse seiners and long liners erraticated the spawning marlin in the SOC? Someone I spoke to during the tournamant suggested that the marlin may have been spawning at that time and it would be a disater if the commercial vessels operated at will. The buyout of commercial vessels has taken place in the Atlantic and he Mexican Government could entertain this, well maybe. There have been suggestions that a 50 percent reduction in boats around the world is necessary to take pressure off of the fish. Science has shown that those areas that have strict quotas etc.. are doing very well. Alaska and Iceland were featured in National Geographic as countries that are leaders in fishery management.
We need to have faith that the science gets to the right government officials and change takes place fast both here and around the world. Tragedy of the Commons cannot continue if the fishery in Mexico and around the world are to be sustained. Who's going to volunteer to start counting fish?????? Joking. -Jarrod
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tantrum
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Posted: Tue Jun 26th, 2007 06:54 am |
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| Go to Marlinnut.com and see the latest news on busting illegal longliners. The whole Cabo community is rallying behind this and getting the authorities after the illegal liners. Just start filming and they run scared......Crazy
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DiveUrge
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Posted: Tue Jun 26th, 2007 06:01 pm |
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Laws are totally useless without enforcement. The authorities look the other way since it's in their financial interest, encouraged by "contributions". That's how it works under the current system.
Positive Note: The longlining won't last much longer since presumably commercial fishing needs to have net profits to continue. The last 4 longlines I saw barely had a fish on them, and fuel costs just keep going up. Even if no one does anything the subsistence fishermen will give up. Problem is the sportfish in the SoC migrate up through a gauntlet of nets and hooks, so having the fishermen quit or migrate south won't help SC.
I was in Maui and got skunked there too. The entire fleet of 6 boats got skunked the day I went out. No moon phase excuses. And the commercial boats practice CATCH & KILL EVERYTHING. They release nothing as a policy - and that's a popular US destination, so the Americans hardly have a lot to brag about. The captain said they keep all fish since whatever they keep at least stays out of the commercial factory ship holds...
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