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Susura
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 04:35 pm |
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| I will be sending you photos that I just took. No one out there yet. 9:30am Thurs
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JustJim
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 05:05 pm |
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Susura wrote: I will be sending you photos that I just took. No one out there yet. 9:30am Thurs
I got them, Thank You V!
Jim
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JustJim
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 10:54 pm |
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Anyone know if they were successful at floating the HYDRA off the rocks today?
Thanks
Jim
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Susura
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Posted: Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 06:30 pm |
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Humberto was meeting with the Port Captain at 10am today. Gave him your email message.
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kpups
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Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2007 04:02 pm |
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Just curious..... What happened with the boat? 
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Donaldo
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Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2007 09:26 pm |
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| Jim, get hold of Vicente on the boat Bravo. He does that with a lot of experiance. His phone # is 2220035
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seaspray89
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Posted: Sun Mar 4th, 2007 06:52 pm |
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Hi all.
A tragic loss that could have been much worse at that time of night. Sympathy to Jim and his boat.
No human injury or loss of life is the good part.
With all the inexpensive solar lighting products on the market, one solution would be to place several solar powered lights facing different directions on a brightly colored sea-water resistant pedastal- and then routine maintenence to the apparatus.
ss89
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JustJim
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Posted: Mon Mar 5th, 2007 09:21 pm |
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I drove back down Friday Night, and Saturday i rented scuba gear and we made an effort to raise her again. By then the boat had been completely stripped of anything valuable (down to the clock and barometer etc). Extensive damage had been made to the hull via the pirates who were trying to steal here (at the permission of the Port Captain) Sunday i was supposed to meet up with Humberto at 8:am to try again with rented floats, and after sitting outside his home/shop for an hour and a half, and him not answering the door (his vehicles were all there) I gave up and came home.
Today I find out the boat was rasied by the Divers from Quaymas (who were supposed to do this the Monday after she sank, and is now sunk at the marina. Nothing is of use now, they stole everything down to the nav lights etc.... and now i have a bill for a haulout, and divers that is too little too late. The rudeer, prop, shafts etc were all still good when i left it weekend before last, and since nothing happened to the boat Monday or Tuesday, and since the port captain gave the Tequila Sheila Boys persmission to loot and salvage her, I doubt anything can be done with her at this point.
I left it in Humberto's hands, and had he followed though on Monday or Tuesday the week of the sinking, there might have been something left to salvage or repair. As it is now, I have a stripped boat, that's been underwater for over a week, and I'm sure a bill for the late haul out, and storage. The trailer is not mine, and is borrowed, and I franticly trying to reach the owner as to facilitate recover of his trailer, as I have no confidence anymore in San Carlos, or trust in the people who have handled this incident.
Can I sue? i doubt so... I wish I could, but again I am relying on Mexico, which I have little to no faith in at this point, and I truly have no desire to ever visit SC again.
Expensive lesson learned, and I get the feeling everyone was in on this raping of the HYDRA, and I can't say I will ever feel good about this situation again.
Jim
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Dos Amigos
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Posted: Mon Mar 5th, 2007 09:31 pm |
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Wow,
Is there anway you can prove it was the people you mentioned (Teqila Sheila boys) and the Port Captain?
If so you should call the police captain and ask them to investigate.
I am sorry that you feel the way you do about the San Carlos area.
What happpened to you is a shame.
Good Luck.
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JustJim
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Posted: Mon Mar 5th, 2007 09:38 pm |
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Dos Amigos wrote: Wow,
Is there anway you can prove it was the people you mentioned (Teqila Sheila boys) and the Port Captain?
If so you should call the police captain and ask them to investigate.
I am sorry that you feel the way you do about the San Carlos area.
What happpened to you is a shame.
Good Luck. The kids who were trying to salvage here ( with barrles which ripped out the railing, and beat the hell out of the side of the Hydra), actually came out to the Hydra Saturday, and tried to claim her (and yes they were on the Tequila Sheila). I indicated to Humberto I didn't want to go to jail in Mexico, but they had better leave in a hurry as my blood was boiling. They had my anchor on their dock, (which I think has been recovered), but everything else I'd imagine is un-recoverable. The rudder is now bent, and the prop ruined, and most likely the shaft is bent too (I had a cherry prop in the boat but it, with everything else has been stolen). Hell they were even trying to steal the carb, and charging system, as parts were laying in the boat from this. The port captain (or the official representing him) showed up lickity split Saturday morning, and denied giving them the boat (so who's lying?) his hand were shaking so I doubt he was telling the truth. Anyways, I doubt there is any justice down there, and to be honest they got what they wanted, all my gear, and now a big bill for a boat that was still viable, had it been raised in a timely manner. My biggest concern is now the trailer, as it's borrowed, and I don't want the nice individual who loaned it to me to incurr any loss for lending me it. However it's ut of my control at this point, and since I feel so violated, and robbed, I can't say I could muster anohter trip to SC. Jim
Last edited on Mon Mar 5th, 2007 09:40 pm by JustJim
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Dos Amigos
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Posted: Mon Mar 5th, 2007 09:49 pm |
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Jim,
I really saddens me that this would happen, I guess that is life in a different country.
It is too bad the community could not pitch in and help to raise in a decent period of time.
I am sorry for your losses, I will be in SC later this week if I can be of any assistance let me know by posting on this board.
Best
Tom
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JustJim
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Posted: Mon Mar 5th, 2007 09:54 pm |
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Dos Amigos wrote: Jim,
I really saddens me that this would happen, I guess that is life in a different country.
It is too bad the community could not pitch in and help to raise in a decent period of time.
I am sorry for your losses, I will be in SC later this week if I can be of any assistance let me know by posting on this board.
Best
Tom
Tom,
The biggest problem I've seen is I get a different story from everyone everyday. Since she was stripped and we had no good plan to raise her, I spoke with mike at Desert Sports and he indicated to avoid getting an environmental penalty (for sitting on the rocks) he could haul her out to Martini bay and sink her as a wreck dive (since my baby was no longer viable IMHO), since then it miracleously got raised and sunk in the marina, and I'd imagine will be back on the trailer soon (along with the bill). Now I am told he would needed permits, and be so far out to scuttle her etc, and I don't know what or who to believe. At least had she been sunk, someone could have enjoyed her as a wreck dive, and since I can't justify spending any more good money after bad so to speak I was willing to do so. Now I have no idea what's going on.
I know I can't justify spending any more of my hard earned cash on a boat that was raped, and suffered more extensive damages for no good reason. I am not a rich Gringo like many in SC, and this boat was what ic ould afford. It's nobodies fault she sank but mine, but the recovery efforts were too lax and too late to be of any good.
Jim
Last edited on Mon Mar 5th, 2007 09:58 pm by JustJim
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Dos Amigos
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Posted: Mon Mar 5th, 2007 09:59 pm |
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Jim,
Mike is a really good guy and very in tune with the way Mexico works. It may be best to follow his advice as he is well established in SC.
Best
Tom
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JustJim
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Posted: Mon Mar 5th, 2007 10:02 pm |
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Dos Amigos wrote: Jim,
Mike is a really good guy and very in tune with the way Mexico works. It may be best to follow his advice as he is well established in SC.
Best
Tom
Tom,
It's too late, the divers raised her and brought her to the marina..... Now I'm sure she will sit on the trailer, and unless i pay a big bill, the borrowed trailer will be held hostage as well. Too much infighting down there for me, everyone seems to hate everyone else, and I simply went off of reccomendations made to me. Now it seems I've paid the ultimate price for my accident, and I can't continue to rush down there, nor can i afford to repair damages that could have been avoided. Let alone re-equip a boat that has been stripped to the bone.
Jim
Last edited on Mon Mar 5th, 2007 10:04 pm by JustJim
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Dave
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Posted: Tue Mar 6th, 2007 12:15 am |
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| I saw them at 12:00 noon today, lifting the boat out of the water at the Marina.
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Donaldo
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Posted: Tue Mar 6th, 2007 12:24 am |
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| Jim, we are very sorry for your loss, however please dont feel that way about San Carlos. You were given some bad advise in the beginning. We have lived here for 25 years and in the boating arena and know there are honest people working in and about the marinas. Don Y Elena (sara Rose)
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kpups
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Posted: Tue Mar 6th, 2007 12:48 am |
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Shocking - poor Jim. Makes me wonder what all the honest people with boats in San Carlos were doing - there are honest boaters down there? So sad it is sickening. Both message boards made me think that the community down there really pulled together - WHAT HAPPENED???? How could that happen? I had questioned the outcome of the Hydra on the rocks and had not received a reply - my question was just out of curiousity. Too bad someone down there had not been paying attention. Jim - so sorry about your loss - what a crying shame.
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JustJim
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Posted: Tue Mar 6th, 2007 01:31 am |
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Donaldo wrote: Jim, we are very sorry for your loss, however please dont feel that way about San Carlos. You were given some bad advise in the beginning. We have lived here for 25 years and in the boating arena and know there are honest people working in and about the marinas. Don Y Elena (sara Rose)
Don,
How can I feel any other way about SC? I trusted people, and I got robbed.
I realize I am an american, and have no rights there, and from now on, I won't put myself in a position to be robbed. I love SC, but the constant worry about loosing my things has ruined it for me.
Jim
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tucsonsean
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Posted: Tue Mar 6th, 2007 09:14 am |
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| I know SC has a lot of honest good people, but I to have had bad experiences dealing with Mexican officials in SC and the only way I have found to get some kind of justice is to contact the local media (in the U.S.) so at least other unsuspecting tourist are aware of what can possibly happened to them (if the media decides it's worthy of a story).Good Luck but me personally I would call it a total loss and just try to reimburse your friend for the trailer.
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bartmanaz
Administrator
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Posted: Tue Mar 6th, 2007 03:46 pm |
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I feel terrible for Jim over this whole episode. I love boats, boating and San Carlos and hate to see this sort of thing happen from the accident itself to the subsequent loss. The question I keep asking myself is what would I do in a similar situation (there but for the grace of God, go any of us) and I don't have an answer for the question. So I'm trying to find out what the answer is and what the proper process is to follow in the event of a mishap to protect the boat, the environment and the boat owner.
In doing some research online, I found this excerpt from the Comite International Maritime, Implementation of the Salvage Convention of 1989, as to what laws apply:
Mexico (art. 125 of the 1994 Navigation Act so provides: "All salvage operations and the rights and responsibilities of the parties shall be governed by the International Convention on Salvage")
Maritime and salvage law are pretty interesting and somewhat complex, but this boils down to a couple of issue-that of abandonment and the law of finds (finders keepers). This seems to explain abandonment to me:
A "derelict" is a vessel that has been left by its crew that has no intention to return and no hope of recovery. However, even when a vessel is "abandoned" and left without intention to return, the vessel remains the property of its owner absent some affirmative act by the owner that clearly and convincingly establishes a positive intent to part with ownership.
The law of "finds" generally applies to sunken or submerged vessels:
"A salvor obtains a right to possess the property but not the right of ownership, and the salvor holds the saved property for the benefit of the rightful owner. However, if the law of "finds" applies, then the finder actually obtains possession and ownership of the property. In the case of a "find" the court does not have to set a value because by definition the finder takes title to the property free and clear of all other claims. Remember the rule, "finders keepers losers weepers"."
"In the case of submerged and sunken vessels, when no owner exists or can be determined, the party who recovers property abandoned is entitled to application of the "law of finds". Under this doctrine, title to abandoned property is given to the person who actually finds and takes possession of the property. Most cases decided under the law of finds involve property which was lost long ago and which has remained under the sea and beyond the reach of its original owners for many years."
It appears to me in this case that this was applied, even though it does not apply. As I understand it, Jim did all he could to avoid "abondonment" and since the boat was not sunk, the law of finds does not apply.
Does Jim have a legal case? Appears that he does, but recognize that the cost to pursue the case may be more than the value he could recover. If the hull was insured, then the avenue would be thru the insurance company.
So having said all of this, now I have several questions that perhaps some of our San Carlos folks can answer.
1. In the event of an accident, to whom should it be reported?
2. What steps are necessary for an owner to protect his interest from claims or even the appearance of abandonment?
3. What expertise/capability exists in the area to provide salvage/recovery without fear of loss under "finds"?
In Jim's case, is there an agency that he can contact for assistance in recovering his property without having to hire an attorney?
I'd ask those who are in related business in San Carlos, ie, marine surveyor, insurance companies, dive operators, etc. to respond so that perhaps we can come up with a process to preclude this happening again. Also interested in hearing from anyone who had a similar mishap that were able to recover their property and how that was done.
Thanx
Bart
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