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Dave Harcourt
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Posted: Thu Jul 6th, 2006 02:36 pm |
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Some interpreted data from an Australian market study and a marine Biologist in Hawaii..
Mahi Mahi can be farmed profitably in tanks, and will probably do well in ocean cages. At my small North Shore Mahi farm in Kahuku, I raised fish to about 10 pounds for $1.70 per pound, and sold them for $2.50 per pound. Because they were fresher h more fat, they tasted fantastic and my customers loved them.Quote from marine biologist Dorado farmer in Hawaii.
Dorado in the wild are pelagic short lived fish. The average life is two to three years
Dorado has a very high growth rate. Juveniles gain on average 10% of their body weight per day (1-3months) while adults put on 4.3% of their body weight per day. It is not uncommon for a fish to reach 5kg and 75cm length in just 9 months. One fish grew from 0.5kg to 16.3kg in only 8 months, It should be noted that Dorado grow much faster in an aquaculture situation than they do in the wild.
High food conversion ratio (FCR) of between 1.4-1.6:1. This means that for every 1.4 kg of food eaten the Dorado gain one kg!
Females are fairly fecund, releasing upwards of 100 000 eggs per spawn after the 1st year. Furthermore, spawning occurs every 2 days in captivity. This excessive spawning causes a lower growth rate in females due to the massive energy expenditure required. However, the growth rates between males and females do not differ until they reach a weight of 4.5kg at which stage males grow considerably quicker. As the fish will be marketed at a weight below 4.5kg this will have no effect on the running of the system.
Diet: Fish and squid, will readily accept artificial diets.
Culture time – Grow to market size of 4kg in 9 months
High fillet return of 50-60% by weight.
It will be necessary to supply distant markets with premium quality, high value products that command adequate premium to offset the disadvantage of the large distances from major markets. (As this study was prepared in Australia and the major markets are Japan and the USA, thus I understand their problem. This gives Mexico an edge in the USA market that would be impossible for Australia to overcome.
I think its time the long liners of the Sea of Cortez to raise fish instead of what they are doing. It is more profitable for them. Who will help get this done?
Dave Harcourt
Last edited on Thu Jul 6th, 2006 02:37 pm by Dave Harcourt
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Dave Harcourt
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Posted: Thu Jul 6th, 2006 02:56 pm |
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There are several fish aquaculture operations in Ensenada, Mexico now.
Tuna are fattened, pacific halibut farming is beginning, Totoaba are being reared.
This is the state of things. Fisheries are declining worldwide. Governments and business are turning to Aquaculture.
Dorado aquaculture in the Sea of Cortez is the only way to salvage the sport fishing for them. This applies to White Sea bass and a number of other species as well.
What the Mexicans need is know how and seed capital.
Can we help them get there?
Dave Harcourt
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DiveUrge
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Posted: Fri Jul 7th, 2006 03:22 pm |
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| Is the SoC warm enough in the winter months to keep Dorado caged? I wonder if they grow at the same rate in colder conditions?
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Dave Harcourt
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Posted: Sat Jul 8th, 2006 11:47 am |
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The Aussie proposal states sea temps of 18C tto 38C are acceptable which is very close to the temps here.
I am preparing a letter to a marine biologist with some experience rearing
Dorado. I have several questions of which temps are one.
Try this link. http://www.sihawaii.com/sydkraul/ The Aussie proposal is linked to this web site also.
Dave Harcourt
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DiveUrge
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Posted: Sat Jul 8th, 2006 03:07 pm |
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You are right about what the Mexicans need. A plan and money. Lord knows the MX longline and handline fishermen know what it means to work hard and live a minimalist lifestyle. They probably work for next to nothing now that the catch has been decimated.
This could be a fun project to work on - Something to be proud to be connected to. Wean the MX off the longlines into farming. A proven system is a must. I wonder if it might be possible to get a University aquaculture program going on this. There would likely be a lot of energetic enthusiatic college kids that would sign up.
You might want to ask if it can be done in close to shore or if it needs to be a blue water exercise...
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Dave Harcourt
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Posted: Sat Jul 8th, 2006 04:13 pm |
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Dive Urge;
Aquaculture will come to Mexico. There is a Mexicon effort to get it going.
http://www.cibnor.mx/servicios/dat/labs/icoordmu.php is a great read. There is lots of info on this site.
The problem is that large multinational companies like http://maricultura.com.mx/ will control the business and the labor force. They will make sure that commercial fishing is unprofitable and hire the survivors for peanuts.
The "throw away Mexican" laboror is a crime against humanity that their government offficals should be tried for in World Court in the Hague.
Empressa by the way is under investigation in the USA for dumping shrimp, and for polution in Brazil, and slave wages in Vietnam. Not your local company trying to do good.
Dave Harcourt
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Dave Harcourt
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Posted: Sat Jul 8th, 2006 04:30 pm |
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Dive,
I got so carried away I forgot to answer your question. It is both shore based and blue water. The hatchlings are raised in tanks and ponds on shore then put in net cages for fattening.
The labor content is in the fattening pens, as the fish have to be fed every day and protected for predators both marine and terrestrial.
The vision I have is that independant contractors do the fattening. Then if they recieve a premium price because their fish are better, good on them. If the government ran the hatcheries and made fish farmers out of this underclass of fishermen ---enforced fishing reglations---tightly controled how distribution is handled then the party is on.
Dave
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DiveUrge
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Posted: Sat Jul 8th, 2006 07:14 pm |
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| Blue water seems a little tough to protect. As soon as the fish got anywhere near harvest size I would imagine the fish would get snatched. It would be necessary to get a protection system set up.
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Sea Fox
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Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2006 01:32 am |
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Boy, this sounds like it is just a matter of time if the process of fattening can be done economically. I have not read all the links so this might be a dumb question...but... what is going to be the most economical way for the Mexicans to feed the adults a high protien diet without resorting to the seining of bait fish (sardines, mackeral or others) to make the food? Most of what I have read regarding aquaculture tends to center around fish meal as the high protien base of fish pellets. Naturally, there could be some recycling of fish parts into meal/pellets when the pen reared fish are harvested and processed. Can you imagine the horror if the whole thing ends of driving the exploitation of other easily harvested species to create the "food" for the pen raised fish that were started to reduce overharvesting? I'm thinking about the trawling of the ocean floors for anything that can be ground into fish food. Maybe even more pressure on sharks, etc. I'm not trying to be a naysayer, just hoping there are answers out there so this kind of project works without any nasty side affects. Like Dave said, there will be plenty of opportunities for someone or some entity to exploit the project so that it never realizes the goals that drove its implementation (i.e. Empresa). Good Topic!
-Dave
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Dave Harcourt
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Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2006 02:17 am |
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DAVE,
They are not fed fish parts or fish at all they are fed a steam extruded grain product that fattens them better and faster than fish.
Mexico has a modern feed grain industry and the new plant in Guadalajara can make the stuff by the ton quite cheaply.
Tuna fattening on the other hand is done with fish and just what you envision is happening now.
Dave Harcourt
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Vince Radice
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Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2006 02:44 am |
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The idea is interesting. How many jobs would aquaculture produce though and who would get those jobs? Certainly not as many as are produced by fishing Dorado. The core of the problem still remains the same, the mexican government continues to look the other way and fisherman continue to break the law. I had some guys come over to my house just yesterday trying to sell me fresh shrimp and I am quite sure it didn't come from any aquaculture project. We will start filming a documentary on the Dorado issue next week so thanks for the heads up on the Aquaculture project though, it is defineltly in the script now.
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DiveUrge
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Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2006 03:14 am |
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| Filming a documentary on Dorado longlining? I'm glad. Lord knows you won't have a tough time finding the longliners. What you might try to do is move up the chain a notch or 2 and focus on those financing the operation. Discourage them and the whole illegal business unravels...
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Vince Radice
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Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2006 04:39 am |
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| We will be spending months filming, it will be quite comprehensive. It is a complex issue.
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Dave Harcourt
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Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2006 12:09 pm |
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Vince,
I hope you will also document the economic conditions that force these people to break the law merely to feed their familys.
I appears that aquaculture will provide at least as many jobs as there are illegal fishermen in the area. The trick here is to keep out mega corporations that will only pay starvation wages to these people. If we can get the pangaros a piece of the pie then we can truly address their scouring of the sea.
We have to be careful that what we want does not lead to starvation for these people.
Sonora's 21% of the populations extreme poverty cannot be solved in a one dimensional manner.
Dave Harcourt
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Sea Fox
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Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2006 04:25 pm |
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Dave, Boy am I happy to hear about the grain feeding scenario  I wonder if the best/fastest way to "prove" the concept to the local citizens is to have a non-profit US organization receive a permit to build a test facility (small scale) and run a couple of cycles of fry through harvest with the tanks and off-shore net pens. The operation could than be expanded/duplicated (with improvements developed from the testing phase) by the Mexicans. The US non-profit would be better able to get the grants or R&D funds to launch the project. Of course, the US non-profit would be "partnered" with Mexican organizations, but the fund raising and implementation cycle would be much faster if a US non-profit was making it happen, in my opinion.
-Dave
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Vince Radice
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Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2006 04:37 pm |
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The socio economic situation will be well documented that is for sure. I doubt that the number of jobs created though would equal what are created now and the technology and skill required to run an aquaculture operation are probably beyond the capabilities of fisherman. There is a tremendous amount of illegals out there and not just fishing dorado. One of the biggest problems I encountered several years ago when I was still trying to make a difference was the level of corruption in the upper echelons of Conapesca. I found the inspectors who actually did enforcement to be great hard working guys. Their hands were tied however from thier superiors above becuase of the large cuantities of money involved in the sale of Dorado. This culture of Cooruption is just one of the things that must change here in Mexico if the fisheries are to be managed properly.
I agree with you 100% though on the biggest part of the problem, that being how little the fisherman makes compared to how much the fish retailer and middlemen make in actually buying and selling the product. Dorado is selling on the market in guaymas right now for 11 pesos per kilo for the whole fish and around 25 pesos a kilo for fileted fish. By the time the dorado get to the U.S. it goes for substanially more than that.
It has always been my opinion that if the fisherman could make more from his catch he would not have to catch as much. But there must be government regulation as well and some basic rules to fish by. Right now it seems as if it is pretty much get what you can before someone else gets it. Not a great way to manage a resourse.
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Stuart
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Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2006 08:56 pm |
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Vince Radice wrote: Right now it seems as if it is pretty much get what you can before someone else gets it. Not a great way to manage a resource.
That's the way it's always been and is the biggest part of the problem, in my opinion. I've cited a nearly identical reference dozens of times when discussing the prevailing attitude of Mexican fisherman -- "If I don't catch and keep it, someone else will."
Witnessing this in action when fishing in charter pangas years ago was one of the driving factors for me getting my own boat. The panga fishermen kept EVERYTHING that came into the boat. Big or small, keep them all. The looks on some of the faces were incredulous when I'd release a small shark or other undersize fish. It was like the panga captain was watching dollar signs swimming away.
I will say that this attitude has changed drastically in tourist and sportfishing areas. Charter panga captains in the East Cape, Cabo, etc. now accept catch and release as part of the business.
But the true commercial guys? The attitude hasn't changed one iota and likely never will.
Last edited on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 08:56 pm by Stuart
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fishinmagishin
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Posted: Wed Jul 12th, 2006 05:37 pm |
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Stuart,
I am very pleased you have joined this thread.. Please stay current, your imput is important..
Several comments have been made that bring a glimmer of hope to this process.. Dave, Matt, Roger & I have been researching this concept (mostly Dave) and the light in the tunnel is not a train..
The progressive concept shared by this group is to NOT screw the indigenous Mexicans, but to make them partners in success.. Other well intentioned groups have wanted the Mexican faction to do something that was nice, but unfortunately returned no hard money within a reasonable time frame..
Another mention was this concept will not solve illegal fishing by Mexicans.. Correct, it will not.. Although a alternative measure is under way and can very possibly bring a significant change in the socio-economic in the SC area.. Why should well intentioned, reasonable entrepeneurs be deterred by the "It has never worked before"... Nobody is not aware of the mordita/manana roadblocks..
Thanks to all for the additions to this thread.. Keep 'em coming..
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fishinmagishin
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Posted: Wed Jul 12th, 2006 05:48 pm |
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I knew I forgot something.. No, not my car keys!!!
Foreign commercial fishing in the SoC.. Again, no one involved so far expects the Koreans to pick up and head to Ecuador.. Although social, financial & peer pressure is all that will discourage the foreigners & Conapecsa.. And that may not be in our lifetimes, but in the life of the cute kid by the pool..
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peg
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Posted: Wed Jul 12th, 2006 10:14 pm |
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Although this is my first post on this thread, I have been following it closely from the beginning. I am very enthusiastic about the possibilites. We have some very bright, progressive, innovative people contributing to this thread! I will have more time to volunteer for this activity when I relocate my recreational trawler to San Carlos this fall.
What I find discouraging is that there are so many people (not all, but some), both expatriates and nationals who are willing to support illegal fishing by purchasing illegal products out of season. Follow the thread on the General Board (on both Boards) about where to purchase fresh shrimp locally out of season. And then there is the individual who caught 43 dorado in one day. I don't have a problem with taking 43 legal size dorado as long as they are put to good use, but catch them over consecutive days to stay within the limit.
Perhaps there needs to be an educational component to this dorado farming program that educates the consumer about the distructive nature of illegal fishing/shrimping. A journey begins with a single step.
Vince, is there room in your documentary for consumer attitudes toward illegal practices? Expatriot attitudes in San Carlos would make an interesting case study. Most people don't even know when shrimp season is......I didn't until I started reading this thread. Thanks guys.
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