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ballenagris
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Posted: Thu Sep 24th, 2009 07:46 pm |
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| When I crossed going south about 10 days ago, I clearly saw the 6AM to 10PM sign.
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ballenagris
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 12:30 am |
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Since this thread has addressed BP checkpoints and their possible legal issues, this URL might be of interest to some of you:
https://www.checkpointusa.org/DHS/homelandSecurity.htm
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No Sniveling
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 12:42 am |
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Opened the link and was not disappointed; you're RIGHT!! They ARE after you!
Quotation from this website:
"U.S. Border Patrol surveillance towers, random profiling, and warrantless searches and seizures are common occurrences along SR86 in Southern Arizona. Countless individuals are subjected to unconstitutional suspicionless searches, seizures and invasions of their privacy on a daily basis by some Border Patrol agents with little regard for the rule of law and even less respect for those they allegedly serve and protect.
Given that SR86 is well over 40 miles North of the border, you may ask yourself why so many Border Patrol resources are directed against the traveling public miles away from the nearest border absent individualized suspicion of wrongdoing. Why aren't these resources being used on the border instead where there's little question as to who is entering the country unlawfully? Given that the Border Patrol spends so little time actually patrolling the Border and so much time promoting unlawful searches and seizures along public highways - the name 'Border Patrol' no longer appears representative of the agencies mission.
While I have no issue with agencies that conduct their affairs within Constitutional boundaries and carry out their mission in a responsible, lawful and professional manner, it's clear the Border Patrol has stepped well outside these reasonable boundaries. Below you will find links to DHS & Border Patrol misconduct that highlight this condition. I'll leave it to you to decide whether the liberty we are losing has resulted in an increase in our security...." Last edited on Sat Sep 26th, 2009 02:55 am by No Sniveling
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mesa
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 03:04 pm |
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| Mariposa closes at night but the downtown crossing is open 24/7.
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bartmanaz
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Posted: Sat Sep 26th, 2009 11:56 am |
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The hours remain 6 AM til 10 PM at Mariposa. The DeConcini port downtown is open 24 hours/day.
Bart
Last edited on Sat Sep 26th, 2009 11:57 am by bartmanaz
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bournemouth
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Posted: Sat Sep 26th, 2009 02:58 pm |
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Mariposa Road is not open 24 hours a day, downtown Nogales is.
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mexicojan
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Posted: Sat Sep 26th, 2009 05:59 pm |
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| The last time I crossed the border at Nogales and drove towards Tucson with my sister, we saw a van stop in front of us (just before the detour where the border patrol checks vehicles near Green Valley) and approximately 12 Mexicans popped out of nowhere and ran into the desert! I think that's why they have the checkpoints.
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Timothy B.
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Posted: Sat Sep 26th, 2009 06:35 pm |
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Good morning,
And if you had gone a mile up the road and waited, you would probably have seen 15 Mexicans run out of the desert and jump INTO the van.
A saw that happen once north of Tombstone at the checkpoint.
Have a good one.
Timothy B.
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mexicojan
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Posted: Sat Sep 26th, 2009 06:54 pm |
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That's true. That's funny! You made my day! You have a good one too!
Jan
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UsryTregre
Member
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 08:46 pm |
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For those of you confused about crossing the border in the vicinity of Nogales:
There are two border crossing areas. One is downtown Nogales, and Bart mentioned its name earlier, and it is open 24/7. The other is the Nogales Mariposa crossing, and is open 6am to 10pm / 7days a week.
Also, I crossed 6pm on Friday, the 25th and back at 3:30 Tuesday the 29th, and had no particular differences than any other time.
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UsryTregre
Member
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 10:09 pm |
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No Sniveling wrote: Opened the link and was not disappointed; you're RIGHT!! They ARE after you!
Quotation from this website: <snipped>
C'mon, folks,
Security is always a balancing act between catching the bad guys and irritating law-abiding citizens.
First of all, who are these people at CheckPointUSA.org? My take is that they don't want anybody to do anything to them, no matter what. And when the next plane bombs a family member to smithereens, they'll be the first to complain that the government didn't do enough.
I've lived all over the world, and traveled to nearby countries when I have lived outside the USA. I've been patted down by a male security guy in Seoul (yes, they get personal), been not-quite-cavity-searched by several fellows with ouzis, had rifles trained on me as I entered certain places, been stopped for search 'cause they felt like it. We are blessed in this country and far too spoiled for too long, and that is why 9-11 happened.
Did anyone stop to think that these CheckPointUSA people are deliberately violating the security of the men and women that serve in the US Border Patrol? That these maps and photos with the inflammatory comments might make some weirdo pick up a weapon and shoot some of them? [think Columbine]
At the very least they are keeping the coyote / mules informed of the status of checkpoints.
How would YOU feel to have several illegals come up to you in your own garage in your rural setting, ask for a ride, and then rudely demand "Why not?!" when you said no? How would you like to have a neighbor punched out sitting in her own SUV, about ready to take her daughter to school, so the illegals could take her vehicle?
I've pledged all my life to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, and do not consider the reasonable precautions of the DHS to infringe on my liberty. For those DHS that cross the line . . . there's ways to handle that, too.
Last edited on Wed Sep 30th, 2009 10:10 pm by UsryTregre
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ballenagris
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Posted: Wed Sep 30th, 2009 10:34 pm |
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I take exception to comments that single out Mexican people ("illegals") as criminals. There are criminals in every society and the scenario you propose could as easily be carried out by American citizens.
It is also sad that Americans have been brainwashed into believing that Mexican immigrants are bad people and that "terrorism" justifies the taking away of liberties that are our birthright. The BP searches are one of many examples where our liberties are constantly being eroded by HS policies that were never voted on by our elected representatives. Other examples include discretionary searches at the border, the siezing of laptops, separation from one's property during searches, etc. All of these are recent inventions created by HS as interpretations of their role. In some cases they've managed to gain support from our judiciary. But never have these policies come from laws created by our elected officials. They represent the expansion of an out of control bureaucracy and are fantasies that have been forced on the American people as necessary for protection or security.
Last edited on Wed Sep 30th, 2009 10:55 pm by ballenagris
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barato
Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 12:26 am |
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UT, I agree wholeheartedly with Ballenagris and No Sniveling.
First, "illegal" is an adjective, not a noun. Thugs come in all national origins and ethnicities, and so do decent human beings. Many of my neighbors are probably undocumented, but I leave my cars and house doors unlocked and have not been assaulted and robbed by the Infidel Horde in 20 years here. Mexico is the only place I travel without a firearm in the car, and I feel safer than I do in the US. On the other hand, I cannot go fishing without being accosted by govt heavies (you cannot get to water from El Paso without going through at least one checkpoint....now, even going south.) This is not the America I grew up to believe in. Effective policing against real dangers requires that the law enforcement folks have the support and trust of the citizenry, and they don’t further that when they act like heavies. This especially rankles when I note the comparative professionalism of the Mexican army and cops.
many of us don’t think that the absence of a police state is "why 9/11 happened." The greater threat to our way of life is not a few religious wackjobs commandeering airplanes but an out-of-control "law enforcement" bureaucracy, supported by complicit fearful folks and those who huckster fear for fun and profit. Al-Quaeda has in fact won if we all adopt your views and relinquish our robust, often contentious and ornery, views towards excessive government control. Governments function best when questioned frequently, for somewhat similar reasons to why competition improves the marketplace.
Your criticism of that website is equally disturbing. These are not undercover agents whose cover could be blown, and your claim that they might be retaliated against if they stay within their bounds is absurd. I see no difference between documenting the location of and practices at that checkpoint and the actions of one Paul Revere.....as one judge put it once in a headlight-flashing case, "Americans have a long and glorious tradition of announcing the presence of armed authority."
The very anecdote you used is illustrative of the problem: unless it’s at the border, what damn business is it of the BORDER PATROL at an IMMIGRATION CHECKPOINT whether I have firearms in my car, particularly in an area where it’s legal under state law (and where the BP no doubt trumpets the purported "lawlessness" and "dangerousness" in its funding requests)? I’m surprised that as a 2d Amdt person, you don’t have a problem with that. I do, and I’m hardly a fringe-NRA type. I once found myself being asked by the BP what type of boat I was driving to Carlsbad to buy.
25+ years of working in the government as a public defender has strongly convinced me that it’s rarely a good idea to give the government (any government, any party, any nation, any ideology) any more info about you than absolutely necessary. You might feel differently if you saw what I do daily, and how many prosecutions are motivated by egos, budget justification and turf protection, and dysfunctional psyches on the part of the humans in our govt rather than any real desire to improve the public safety in a meaningful way.
My 2 pesos’ worth.
Last edited on Thu Oct 1st, 2009 12:29 am by barato
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No Sniveling
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Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 01:07 am |
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Forgive me, but I believe my post may have been misconstrued. My "They ARE out to get you!" was a cynical jab at those who believe that a few questions or slight delay are a violation of some God-given right to absolute impunity. My copy posted from the website link was meant to expose the conspiracy-theory, wacko bias of the information.
Since I seem to frequent the border and checkpoint area more than most who are the targets of these outrageous attacks, I just keep sharing my experiences to show that "if you have nothing illegal, nothing to hide, and if you don't go anywhere you couldn't tell your Mom", the delays are short and less frequent than some would have us believe. Today, I suffered the ultimate: I was pulled over for secondary inspection (the 3rd time since I began selling to Maquiladoras in Mexico in 2000) and asked to step into "The Extermination Chamber"! The dreaded room where you can't see your vehicle!!!! I waited in the room for 3-4 minutes while agents inspected my car. They were polite, courteous, and nothing in my car was disturbed. They asked if I wanted to take my briefcase, to which I said "No, I will leave it there". It to was undisturbed. I guess I must have seemed like I had done nothing wrong and had nothing to hide? The idea of playing 20 questions is a proven, time-tested tactic to trip up people who are lying, or have something to hide. Never having been accused of being a shrinking violet, I gladly respond with 20 answers.
I have a neighbor who travels I-19 through the checkpoint every weekday. She becomes quite upset when the delay puts her in danger of being late to work (instead of leaving 5 minutes earlier). She can't believe that a blond in a truck with AZ plates IN ARIZONA has to answer anything, and she lets them know that when she is stopped....
I roll down the front and back windows, say "US Citizen" when passing there, and have never once been asked a second question.
Last edited on Thu Oct 1st, 2009 01:29 am by No Sniveling
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UsryTregre
Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 02:47 am |
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barato wrote:
The very anecdote you used is illustrative of the problem: unless it’s at the border, what damn business is it of the BORDER PATROL at an IMMIGRATION CHECKPOINT whether I have firearms in my car, particularly in an area where it’s legal under state law (and where the BP no doubt trumpets the purported "lawlessness" and "dangerousness" in its funding requests)? I’m surprised that as a 2d Amdt person, you don’t have a problem with that. I do, and I’m hardly a fringe-NRA type. I once found myself being asked by the BP what type of boat I was driving to Carlsbad to buy.
My sister worked for a defense lawyer, so I understand your position.
Now let me put on my counter-intelligence hat. Someone on an illegal mission may have a story . . . I'm going to buy a boat. Asking "what kind of boat" might make someone fluster.
An honest person won't have that issue.
As for the illegals -- I know too many others that immigrated properly, and find the attitude that just because one can cross the barbed wire fence, that it should be okay to do so, is just wrong. If others can do the right thing and wait for 10 years, so should they all. Besides, I sat in the emergency room for four hours with a daughter with a suspected kidney infection because illegals got there first. There are too many emergency rooms and urgent care clinics shutting down because they cannot afford to treat the illegal population.
Lastly - the Border Patrol is part of the Department of Homeland Security. Their mission, while still Border Patrol, has changed. How about checking out the DHS mission?
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barato
Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 06:04 pm |
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NS, sorry i missed the tongue in cheek. i do think the person who put up that website is a bit of a crank, and was being unnecessarily & unreasonably confrontational with the BP in the one clip i viewed. and i agree that generally, most of the BP and CBP folks i've dealt with in my frequent cross-border forays have been professional. i also agree that many people are all too ready to scream about violation of their rights in response to something that doesn't materially affect them going about their lives, and in many cases without even having bothered to read the Constitution to find out what those rights are.
however, i'm not talking about some amorphous god-given right to absolute impunity, but rather a US Constitution-given right to travel and go about your affairs without excessive govt interference. 3 problems with that: 1) these rights tend to evaporate if you don't assert them when you feel it's appropriate; 2) any constitution or bill of rights protects the flakes and cranks just like the reasonable folks in the center...indeed, they need it more and many of our most important decisions on the Bill of Rights come from the actions of folks some might view as flakes and cranks; and 3) police states don't announce their coming or remove all your rights in one fell swoop, it happens gradually and is always "for your own good." Orwell hit this one on the nose in Animal Farm.
and given that i read BP reports daily for a living, i very much understand the use of the 20 Qs technique (but strongly disagree with your conclusion that only the guilty are tripped up). at the border, this is fine. but not only are the rules very different at the border vs at an interior checkpoint, they should be, in terms of the delay and intrusion in-US travelers can and should reasonably expect. these are immigration checkpoints, as checkpoints to detect criminal activity generally are illegal (imagine the public reaction to putting THOSE throughout the US, in the current political climate...!). all they need to determine is whether 1) you might be a non-USC illegally in the country; and 2) whether you might be smuggling any such persons in the vehicle. IF they develop reasonable suspicion that you are violating some other law within their ambit (mostly, transporting a load of dope) before they have resolved issues 1 and 2, they can further detain you. otherwise, they are legally required to let you go on your way, and most are professional enough to do so. unfortunately, some, particularly the younger, usually male, agents at times play the 20 Qs game not because they think i am violating one of the above but as a power trip....yes, this is of course merely my belief, but it's based on observation of the body and verbal language and human nature, not any paranoia that anyone is "out to get me."
i'm glad that your experiences have been 100% positive. mine have been less so, and i have nothing to hide (except my admittedly bad attitude toward authority...which i never openly display towards said authority in the field). we still need to get together for that beer, and i'll tell you about some of the funnier ones (which is how i try to see it all, even when it rankles slightly).
UT, respectfully, we got along fine for many years without even HAVING a DHS, even including that one incident where the management ignored the express warnings about the imminence and nature of an attack given them by the existing intelligence agencies....they would have ignored the DHS if they ignored the CIA. and my comments were not aimed at who the BP works for (all this involved was a reshuffling of an existing agency to different cabinet dept, it didn't change their powers or their mission), but the legal limitations on those checkpoints. it's still none o their damn biz whether a USC has firearms in the car.
at the risk of revealing my age....just once before i die, when they ask my citizenship, i'll have to respond by singing "YOU CAN GET ANYTHING YOU WANT, AT ALICE'S RESTAURANT" 
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No Sniveling
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Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 06:55 pm |
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"at the risk of revealing my age....just once before i die, when they ask my citizenship, i'll have to respond by singing "YOU CAN GET ANYTHING YOU WANT, AT ALICE'S RESTAURANT" "
I saw Arlo sing that at the MU at ASU in '69 or '70, so that puts my age out. We can agree to disagree on several other points, and we do need to have that beer!
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UsryTregre
Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 09:28 pm |
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Yeah, great; and then when they arrest you they'll bring out the 27 8x10 glossy photos with pictures and arrows and an explanation on the back of each one . . . .
I'll bet you two 'looked and felt your very best to show up at the draft station . . . " 
Last edited on Thu Oct 1st, 2009 09:28 pm by UsryTregre
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mexicojan
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Posted: Fri Oct 2nd, 2009 12:43 am |
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| woooooooooooooo hooo Last edited on Sat Oct 3rd, 2009 05:59 pm by mexicojan
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UsryTregre
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 2nd, 2009 02:49 am |
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Hmm . . . I don't see any "always", "every", "never", etc in 'No Sniveling', 'barato', or my comments.
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